[Football] That Crystal Palace banner

[The Clamp]

Well done on the banner CP but with respect, tip of the iceberg.


Wait til they find out about “the eight emirate”….


The UK government has courted investments from the Gulf to help boost its economy, especially after Brexit. But will it come at a cost?

Post-Brexit, the British government has strongly encouraged investments from the Gulf to help sustain its economy.

However, critics warn that such financial exposure means London is less likely to criticise its Gulf partners.

“By giving Gulf countries the opportunity to invest in Britain despite their record on human rights, Britain becomes more dependent on these countries and less able to voice a critical opinion on their autocratic rule,” Madawi al Rasheed, a Saudi analyst at LSE, told Declassified.

Any concern for human rights appears to have taken a backseat to commercial interests instead.

Over the last five years, the UK has sold over £75 million ($103 million) worth of spyware, wiretaps, and telecom interception equipment to spy on dissidents, to over 17 countries including Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Bahrain.

Not to mention Whitehall also authorised £1.88 billion ($2.6 billion) worth of arms sales in 2020 to the Saudi-led coalition in war-torn Yemen.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....aise-questions-over-undue-influence-45908/amp

Any raising of awareness is welcome but in all honesty, the Saudis owning a football team is the least of our worries. And with post-brexit Britain becoming an increasingly toxic trading partner, investment in and trading with other toxic territories will only increase.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Clean? Comparatively, yes. Have the Abu Dhabi regime bombed hospitals in Yemen or murdered journalists?

And in Russia?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

I’d warrant that those willing to tell us the real stories around Abramovich’s billions are either already murdered or too afraid to print the truth.

 

[Swansman]

In this instance, my ‘whataboutery’ is not driven by any sympathy with the Saudi regime which I consider awful and unfit to be involved with football club ownership in the UK. More to do with the fact that everyone is jumping on a moral crusade but why weren’t some (especially Palace Ultras) up in arms when an equally tainted regime took over Man City?

Abramovich has been banned from entry to the UK on occasion (and that’s from a sympathetic Tory government) but I’ve not seen the outpouring of anger over his involvement with Chelsea that we are seeing now.

Bottom line is that the ‘Big 6’ are distraught that they’ve been turned into the ‘Big 7’, clubs like Everton and West Ham are angry because they will be even further away from European places and the bottom half teams (a club we are normally a member of) have lost a relegation rival which means going down in future will be slightly more likely.

Having witnessed the sort of quality blood stained Arab money can buy yesterday, I’m in no mood to limit this conversation to Ultras Vs Saudis as it’s a much much bigger picture.

Edit - just read HWT’s post ‘what he said’ would have sufficed!

What about the UAE. What about Abramovich. What about the kid who stole my bike when he was nine and I was just seven. Abramovich didnt make a naval blockade in Yemen that made 50 000 children under the age of 5 starve to death last year. The guys who bought Newcastle did. Abramovich, as far as we know, didnt chop up any journalists. Abramovich, as far as we know, did not arrange any stonings of women due to adultery. The Saudis you and HWT are defending did.

You are right that it is a much bigger picture and by refering to West Ham and Everton supporters being upset because they dont get to play in the UEFA Conference League or whatever the **** its called, you are clearly not seeing it.

 

[Swansman]

Well done on the banner CP but with respect, tip of the iceberg.


Wait til they find out about “the eight emirate”….


The UK government has courted investments from the Gulf to help boost its economy, especially after Brexit. But will it come at a cost?

Post-Brexit, the British government has strongly encouraged investments from the Gulf to help sustain its economy.

However, critics warn that such financial exposure means London is less likely to criticise its Gulf partners.

“By giving Gulf countries the opportunity to invest in Britain despite their record on human rights, Britain becomes more dependent on these countries and less able to voice a critical opinion on their autocratic rule,” Madawi al Rasheed, a Saudi analyst at LSE, told Declassified.

Any concern for human rights appears to have taken a backseat to commercial interests instead.

Over the last five years, the UK has sold over £75 million ($103 million) worth of spyware, wiretaps, and telecom interception equipment to spy on dissidents, to over 17 countries including Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Bahrain.

Not to mention Whitehall also authorised £1.88 billion ($2.6 billion) worth of arms sales in 2020 to the Saudi-led coalition in war-torn Yemen.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....aise-questions-over-undue-influence-45908/amp

Any raising of awareness is welcome but in all honesty, the Saudis owning a football team is the least of our worries. And with post-brexit Britain becoming an increasingly toxic trading partner, investment in and trading with other toxic territories will only increase.

Wow a thread about something! I need to make it about Brexit!

 

[The Clamp]

Being investigated by the police apparently:

Police are investigating a graphic banner displayed by Crystal Palace fans that targeted the Saudi Arabian-led takeover of Newcastle United.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59025887

Good on Palace for this one from me. Quite why the police are involved is beyond me.

See my previous post. The Saudis are in bed with the Tory’s and won’t tolerate criticism. That’s why the police are involved.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Can you imagine Man City fans with such a banner?

Or Man U?

Or Arsenal?

Ah - but there is a line isn't there. And only Newcastle have crossed it. All the other clubs have clean owners don't they?

And it is for small clubs without much of a pot to piss in to point it out. Not in a way that will effect change or reverse the take over, but simply to wind up the Newcastle fans in a 'look at us' way.

And we are looking at them. Plucky Palace.

This guy.

FC United was formed by United fans as a protest against Americans taking over the club.

That's a far bigger statement of protest than a banner.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

In this instance, my ‘whataboutery’ is not driven by any sympathy with the Saudi regime which I consider awful and unfit to be involved with football club ownership in the UK. More to do with the fact that everyone is jumping on a moral crusade but why weren’t some (especially Palace Ultras) up in arms when an equally tainted regime took over Man City?

Abramovich has been banned from entry to the UK on occasion (and that’s from a sympathetic Tory government) but I’ve not seen the outpouring of anger over his involvement with Chelsea that we are seeing now.

Bottom line is that the ‘Big 6’ are distraught that they’ve been turned into the ‘Big 7’, clubs like Everton and West Ham are angry because they will be even further away from European places and the bottom half teams (a club we are normally a member of) have lost a relegation rival which means going down in future will be slightly more likely.

Having witnessed the sort of quality blood stained Arab money can buy yesterday, I’m in no mood to limit this conversation to Ultras Vs Saudis as it’s a much much bigger picture.

This. This. This.

I am happy to accept that the banner was concocted by genuine Palace fans and displayed against the wishes of the stewards (and by dint of that, the Palace ownership).

I am very far from angry about the banner, and good luck to them.

All I am saying is that I had my suspicions about the motives. I am happy to accept the assurances of [MENTION=21414]Del Fenner[/MENTION], that the motives are largely if not entirely pure.

If this is taken up by all EPL clubs and it looks like a real meme (like taking the knee) then I will respect it. If a fan led grass roots movement can drive the Saudi's out of football it would be impressive. And if this happens, as the post above indicates, why stop there? If football fans can change the Newcastle ownership, football fans can change the world.

It won't work though. A boycott of all Saudi oil and oil-derived goods, and the companies that facilitate their business would be necessary to start the world change. Where is the march and vigil outside the Saudi Embassy? Hmmmm. Flags at football matches.....

So I will keep one eyebrow raised about the fact that the Saudis have given shelter and support and money to terrorists, some of whom have killed British Citizens, and no football fans organized protests outside petrol pumps. I will keep the flagging eyebrow up when I see that Newcastle fans, who are no different from Palace fans, are largely pleased about the new found wealth, whereas Palace and other fans whose clubs have a new rival are displeased. Who knew?

Nevertheless, I will set aside my expectation that in weeks and months time this will have passed, and admit that presently I am unable to decide whether the Palace fans have made an informed decision about geopolitics and human rights, or have harnessed po-faced cant in persuit of self interest. Perhaps it is all good and noble after all. Time will tell.

 

[The Clamp]

Wow a thread about something! I need to make it about Brexit!

The mention of brexit is in the article. It’s a component. I haven’t “made it about Brexit”. It’s in context and it’s relevant. No need to get worked up.
Instead, have a read of it.

 

[Eric the meek]

I wonder what we would all do if an Abramovich or a Saudi or Qatari lot bought BHAFC ?

Would we get the banners out, or would we reserve judgement, and 'see how it goes', while hoping for a title and Champions League footie?

I'm afraid I know which direction I would take.

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Dismissing [MENTION=23795]Hugo Rune[/MENTION]'s post (and mine) by questioning our motives and allegiances may be an expression of anger. But it is also a demonstration of stupidity.

My view (and you will say you aren't interested in my view - only as a totem to attract your offensiveness) is that dealing with this murdering nation in the wider context is not straightforward. The UK and most other nations are already in bed with them over oil. So we already have blood on our hands and have no intention to wash it off.

What intrigues me is why they want to buy a football club. I have read about sports washing, but I am not going to book a holiday in Saudi because they own Newcastle, or speak favourably about them at dinner parties. Is a few thousand Geordie holiday makers going to increase saudi wealth? How much more money are they going to 'earn' via this investment? How much do they need?

They have even got a non muslim woman as the front of house face. Is this promoting Islam?

Or are they holed up in their Dr Evil lairs, sniggering about how they have fooled us, and the next plan will be....er?

I think this is a first bumbling attempt to ingraciate themselves, and engage with the world. My view is let's see how it goes. My view would be different if we didn't already have a Russian oligarch, Chinese nominees, other Arab Emirs, weird American and other freaks running our clubs.

Please don't say that making a stand against the Saudis will turn the tide, and enough is enough. Reversing the tide of football finance with a comedy banner? No. This (Palace fans) is almost entirely an opportunistic pop at a relegation rival.

It's not about money. They don't need money. If they go the same way as City they will spend billions and will only declare profit if they find creative ways to sponsor themselves.

It's about normalising their reputation. City are the perfect example. When you think of Sheikh Mansour you think of De Bruyne, Pep, Grealish etc. They have successfully created an image of the Abu Dhabi group as doing great things for Manchester and the Premier League. Very few have spoken of the atrocities the owners have (alledgedly) committed and the concerns of their rule raised by Amnesty International. They don't appear to give a shit about the football club, the owner doesn't ever go. It's just a pure vanity project.

The challenge Newcastle have is that the crimes are greater and much higher profile after the killing of the journalist, and with City, PSG, now Newcastle and also the Qatar World Cup on the horizon, people's understanding of Sportswashing is increasing and more people are talking about what's really going on.

Of course, it will all be forgotten in a few years time when all the protests like the one at Selhurst have been shut down by the league and its clubs and Sky and the Toon Army are jizzing themselves about Mbappe being the greatest Newcastle striker since Shearer.



Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[Y Ddraig Goch]

What intrigues me is why they want to buy a football club. I have read about sports washing, but I am not going to book a holiday in Saudi because they own Newcastle, or speak favourably about them at dinner parties. Is a few thousand Geordie holiday makers going to increase saudi wealth? How much more money are they going to 'earn' via this investment? How much do they need?
.

It's the PL, the fans who go to games are pretty much irrelevant to many owners or certainly come second. The PL is a global product, that's the Saudi's target market. It's not about wealth it's about influence.

Unfortunately, it is nigh on impossible to not buy or use something that has links to regimes or made in countries that are considered dodgy. However, something as blatant as this, and in particular, the government's role, is something fans can and should make a stand against.

Someone else mentioned Abramovich and the lack of protest. The HF have had a banner criticising him before, in spite of us seemingly having a good relationship with the club at a football level.

 

[andy1980]

Due to a series of rejected FOI requests, it appears highly likely that the PL were under pressure from the British Government to accept PIF as owners of Newcastle.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58840820

So why have a go at the Premier League. Why didn't the HF do something against the govenment?

 

[martin tyler]

Football sold out years before this take over especially the premier league. Newcastle are not the first owners to have been welcomed in with open arms to the party despite clear links to some atrocious crimes.
Look at the wages paid, lack of respect for fans in terms of kick off times, ticket prices at times ect. Clubs in the championship chasing a dream few ever making it and most eventually ending up back there be it one two three of 10 years later.
With each new multi billionaire coming in the pool of clubs who are likely to be relegated decreases. If Newcastle stay up this year then they won’t be relegated anytime soon. Is this what is being protested against?
The premier league doesn’t care anymore they just want a brand that has all the best players and they don’t care how it’s brought. The monster they have created is unsustainable now without it they know it.
Do I think this take over should have happened? Definitely not but if you allow one criminal country or person into football then they will all be in. Sports washing is top of the iceberg. I wasn’t surprised PIF deal got through with a little tweak of paperwork. Someone somewhere will be living of the proceeds of that deal for the rest of their life.
Are England and it’s fans going to boycott the World Cup? Qatar death toll for migrants workers for a corrupt is over 6500 reported deaths. Seems unlikely.
Banner sentiment I think is right. But it is something that should have been done years ago.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Unbelievable. You dont think its an attempt of sports washing, but you do think its a way for them to ingratiate themselves. In what way is the difference anything but semantics?

You really are showing your true colours here digging hard and deep to find arguments to defend the Saudis and their takeover.

Stop being silly. You're showing you conspiracy theory credentials by declaring I have 'true colours'. Do you really think I'm on a secret mission to promote Islamic terrorism?

My personal view is we should have either struck proper hard bargains over oil deals decades ago (rather than bending over with both eyes clsed, as The West did) or invaded the minute it looked like they were committing human rights abuses, and the second it looked like they were funding terrorism. Instead we sold them arms, with out eyes wide open

Unfortunately we are where we are.

As for sportswashing, what does this actually mean? Wikepedia says "Sportswashing is the practice of an individual, group, corporation, or nation-state using a major or prestigious international sport to improve its reputation, through hosting a sporting event, the purchase or sponsorship of sporting teams, or by participation in the sport itself.". OK, so what's wong with that? If you happen to be mad and murderous it won't work, except in the minds of the gullable, and who cares about them?

So the Saudis buy Newcastle and lots of people say 'Newcastle are doing well now, lets give the Saudis some love and money!" We don't do that with Emirates airlines or the Glazers (no idea even what they sell). What is gained here and why should I care? All the Saudis have done is invite a light to be shined on their shithousery on account of their cheeky bid to own a successful football club. A few thick geordies in black and white arab wear at the football can **** right off, surely?

 

[Jim in the West]

Whatever we think of the Palace "Ultras", the banner and the statement were first class. They have set an example, at the first away game Newcastle has played after the takeover. The baton has now been passed to Brighton & Hove Albion, their second away fixture. What are we going to do?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I wonder what we would all do if an Abramovich or a Saudi or Qatari lot bought BHAFC ?

Would we get the banners out, or would we reserve judgement, and 'see how it goes', while hoping for a title and Champions League footie?

I'm afraid I know which direction I would take.

As stated in a previous thread about this, I, and many others, would walk away.

 

[Eeyore]

We can engage in 'whataboutery' as they call it, but the main issue here is one of the right to opinion. And sometimes opinions have to offend. So be it.

You have to pick your battles and, unfortunately for Newcastle United fans, this is one that is more clear cut.

It's my view that anyone who believes in freedom of expression and opinion shouldn't let this go. We need to get right behind those Palace fans if the law is molded to deal with it- because that affects us all. So forget the pantomime rivalry and look at the bigger picture.

Sitting here this morning I think it may quietly go away this one. But if it is repeated we have an interesting situation. And the football authorities have a headache. I know who's side I'm on.

 

[Acker79]

If somebody complains about it then it stays in the news and actually gets more coverage

aka 'The (Barbara) Streisand Effect'

Thoughts ?

SSN keep referring to this as a 'graphic banner'. Doesn't seem all that graphic to me.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Thoughts ?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Immediate thoughts are the banner lends itself beautifully to be reproduced in A4 size and printed and distributed by anybody with a printer. Then the possibilities are endless for every Newcastle away game. Could be held up en masse by fans / thrown on the pitch to delay kick-off. Maybe even a leaflet drop from the sky. Like I say, the possibilities are endless...

*EDIT* Or postcards. Huge numbers of postcards. Not like it not been done before by football fans eh?

 

[Swansman]

I wonder what we would all do if an Abramovich or a Saudi or Qatari lot bought BHAFC ?

Would we get the banners out, or would we reserve judgement, and 'see how it goes', while hoping for a title and Champions League footie?

I'm afraid I know which direction I would take.

I also know what direction you would take.

Working class binmen swearing = unacceptable.

Oligarchs beheading people = look the other way.

Its how upper class people function.