Garage_Doors
Originally the Swankers
What you mean is you don't have a valid answer.
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So who is in the 65% of people that agreed to the Vogue Gyratory 'improvements'?
- Thread starter element
- Start date
What you mean is you don't have a valid answer.
Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
There was a long thread on here at the time of the consolation, I thought the plans were well laid out, gave clear choices and the ones voted for are about making it a safer place to travel around. Coombe Road area was going to have the parking changed especially by the row of shops if I remember.
Good that something is being done for the road to be made safer. The Falmer road is in real need of a bike footpath next.
Good that something is being done for the road to be made safer. The Falmer road is in real need of a bike footpath next.
Winker
CUM ON FEEL THE NOIZE
So having reduced London Road to one lane, proposing to do the same to Lewes Road, then closing King George VIth avenue to traffic, they will turn the city into one gigantic traffic-jam where noboby can enter or leave and we all die of respiritory diseases, brilliant. Lets all vote Green because they live in the real world.
i actually live on the Lewes road, and i am bang against this idea, this will cause chaos. All of my neighbours of whom i have spoken to have all voted against this, but it would seem that the Student's vote is far more important than the long term residents.
Currently it can take me 15 to 20 minutes to get down lewes road from Coldean at rush hour. All it means it that i will use rat runs through Moulscoomb and i am sure others will join me. This will just force kids to be at risk when trying to cross the road.
Coombe road will become a nightmare, cyclists dont stop there at the best of times and people turning left there to go up coombe road often have cyclists not giving way to motorists and often go through red lights. The Gyratory will become a massive queue.
How long before someone gets killed? i can see it happening. i really can.
Currently it can take me 15 to 20 minutes to get down lewes road from Coldean at rush hour. All it means it that i will use rat runs through Moulscoomb and i am sure others will join me. This will just force kids to be at risk when trying to cross the road.
Coombe road will become a nightmare, cyclists dont stop there at the best of times and people turning left there to go up coombe road often have cyclists not giving way to motorists and often go through red lights. The Gyratory will become a massive queue.
How long before someone gets killed? i can see it happening. i really can.
The Large One
Who's Next?
I assume that you apply that rhetoric to every aspect of democracy - because that's how it works.
Oh, please. Just because you disagree on something - it's propaganda. Whereas if you agree with it, it's democracy...
How else are they to judge what residents want? Are they to keep the status quo, just because 27,000 people didn't care enough to respond? Everyone had their chance.
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Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
Hence the changes!
The Large One
Who's Next?
Very well.
Seasidesage has convinced himself that the students have chosen this system, despite there being no evidence for this.
The council officers are satisfied that this will work. Councillors on all sides agree, hence the scheme, application for funding, approval and implementation.
The City Council, the bus companies, Brighton & Hove Albion, Brighton & Hove Business Forum and now the local residents agree with it.
As for the question (actually, there were several), he had the opportunity to put his point across. His neighbours (assuming he lives in the area) disagreed with him. Sadly, it's not his city alone - it's everyone's.
The Large One
Who's Next?
People already have been. That's why the Tories - in agreement with Labour and the Greens (and the one LibDem) - brought in these changes.
The Large One
Who's Next?
It might just be the case that we are a smallish Regency seaside town, with a population of approx. 155 000 souls, and the standard of living has improved so much that a large proportion own a car, and the place is just filled to the gunwales with the things, and there is no room to manoeuvre left
What I find galling is they are not honest about their agenda. If they came out and said they would do all they could to deter vehicles operating in the city, it would be a surefire vote-loser, so naturally they don't go to the polls on this ticket. However, the constant, misleading dressing-up of anti-vehicle measures as 'improvements' is a masterwork of propaganda...
It's just dishonest at the end of the day...
For the eighth time, this is a Tory scheme.
However, the Greens were pretty clear on their agenda - they're pro-public transport, which different from being 'anti-car' - and they've pretty much stuck to it.
A bit lilke Brighton & Hove Albion, really.
driller
my life my word
Can they just cone off the lane and sit back and watch the traffic pile up ( or flow freely ) before they dig up the road and hope all goes to plan?
Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
It might just be the case that we are a smallish Regency seaside town, with a population of approx. 155 000 souls, and the standard of living has improved so much that a large proportion own a car, and the place is just filled to the gunwales with the things, and there is no room to manoeuvre left
What I find galling is they are not honest about their agenda. If they came out and said they would do all they could to deter vehicles operating in the city, it would be a surefire vote-loser, so naturally they don't go to the polls on this ticket. However, the constant, misleading dressing-up of anti-vehicle measures as 'improvements' is a masterwork of propaganda...
It's just dishonest at the end of the day...
I just despair at all the clap trap spoken by these so called politicians who have never had a proper job and talk out of their arses.
Today, they were banging on about 20mph in residential areas.
Some numpty said it needs to happen as we have the worst accident rate in Europe.
Strange that, all my life politicians have said we have the best record in Europe and also much better than USA.
The accident rates have been terrible abroad whilst falling year on year here.`
They just make anything up to suit their current agenda.
Getting everyone out of their cars is a decent idea but they need to sort out the infrastructure first... make short bus journeys cheaper rather than a total rip-off unless you're using a ticket time and again and provide some park and rides outside the city, like Oxford.
Garage_Doors
Originally the Swankers
Don't have a problem with this except at what cost, environmentally it wil not be more beneficial and once public transport comes down to an affordable level.
Is not widely know we have one of the most expensive public transport systems in the country?
Using a bus in Brighton is just too expensive.
For me I have to have a. Vechicle to earn a living so it a fixed cost I have to have it. If I want to go into town it's less that a £1 for fuel but if I want to take a bus it's near on £4. It just too expensive.
- Thread starter
- #36
I've just been looking at the PDF of the consultation report via the transport committee meeting agenda, scheduled for 4pm. at Hove Town Hall on 02/10/12...
Brighton Hove City Council - Agenda for Transport Committee on Tuesday, 2nd October, 2012, 4.00pm
Item 21, Add. doc. Enc. 1
It shows that there were 65% in favour of the VGS 'improvements', and 34% against...
It was interesting a bit further down, where the figures for comments were collated...
These are the comments by people against the scheme...
'This will make things worse/ cause more congestion. More pollution/ be more
dangerous
645
Even with proposed changed there are still concerns about Sainsburys
entrance
76
Waste of money/ concerns about cost 43
Take out the "island" and start again/ the island is the problem, getting out of
the BP garage is the problem
40
Cars turning across the cycle lane (L turns into Hollingdean) will be
dangerous
39
Traffic signals need rephasing 38
Entrance to Sainsbury's is dangerous and needs improving 21
Don't want cycle priority 14
Not enough room (for HGVs/ buses/ cycle lane) 12
Needs to be more done for pedestrians at the Sainsbury's exit 12
Vogue Gyratory has always been dangerous for walking/ cycling 10
Needs better signage (to avoid being in the wrong lane) 8
Cycling from Hollingdean into town will be difficult 6
Going north from Upper Lewes Road to to Lewes Road will be difficult 5
Cycle lanes are dangerous/ this will be more dangerous for cyclists 5
Not enough cyclists to justify this 4
General positive comments 3
Moving lights at west side will make using Sainsbury's entrance worse 3
Concerned about lane changing going north from Upper Lewes Road 3
Want cycle lane on the right side or in the centre 3
Make roads one way (Upper Lewes Rd) or block off side roads 2
Traffic merging at Gyratory is currently dangerous 1
Needs more pedestrian crossings at Lewes Rd/ White Crow/ Petrol Station 1
Will make it more difficult for the less able-bodied to get to Sainsbury’s 1
Make Pope’s Folly into a cycle route 1
And these were the comments of those in favour of the scheme...
Vogue Gyratory has always been dangerous for walking/ cycling 54
Even with proposed changed there are still concerns about Sainsburys
entrance
36
Traffic signals need rephasing 20
Take out the "island" and start again/ the island is the problem, getting out of
the BP garage is the problem
19
General positive comments 17
Entrance to Sainsbury's is dangerous and needs improving 15
Cars turning across the cycle lane (L turns into Hollingdean) will be
dangerous
14
This will make things worse/ cause more congestion. More pollution/ be more
dangerous
13
Needs to be more done for pedestrians at the Sainsbury's exit 13
Traffic merging at Gyratory is currently dangerous 5
Cycling from Hollingdean into town will be difficult 3
Concerned about lane changing going north from Upper Lewes Road 3
Going north from Upper Lewes Road to to Lewes Road will be difficult 2
Needs more pedestrian crossings at Lewes Rd/ White Crow/ Petrol Station 2
Don't want cycle priority 2
Cycle lanes are dangerous/ this will be more dangerous for cyclists 1
Needs better signage (to avoid being in the wrong lane) 1
Moving lights at west side will make using Sainsbury's entrance worse 1
Want cycle lane on the right side or in the centre 1'
My point is, if the proposals were put forward, and people weren't asked to give a For/Against answer, but to just comment, then the comments be quantified, a different outcome would be reached...
Brighton Hove City Council - Agenda for Transport Committee on Tuesday, 2nd October, 2012, 4.00pm
Item 21, Add. doc. Enc. 1
It shows that there were 65% in favour of the VGS 'improvements', and 34% against...
It was interesting a bit further down, where the figures for comments were collated...
These are the comments by people against the scheme...
'This will make things worse/ cause more congestion. More pollution/ be more
dangerous
645
Even with proposed changed there are still concerns about Sainsburys
entrance
76
Waste of money/ concerns about cost 43
Take out the "island" and start again/ the island is the problem, getting out of
the BP garage is the problem
40
Cars turning across the cycle lane (L turns into Hollingdean) will be
dangerous
39
Traffic signals need rephasing 38
Entrance to Sainsbury's is dangerous and needs improving 21
Don't want cycle priority 14
Not enough room (for HGVs/ buses/ cycle lane) 12
Needs to be more done for pedestrians at the Sainsbury's exit 12
Vogue Gyratory has always been dangerous for walking/ cycling 10
Needs better signage (to avoid being in the wrong lane) 8
Cycling from Hollingdean into town will be difficult 6
Going north from Upper Lewes Road to to Lewes Road will be difficult 5
Cycle lanes are dangerous/ this will be more dangerous for cyclists 5
Not enough cyclists to justify this 4
General positive comments 3
Moving lights at west side will make using Sainsbury's entrance worse 3
Concerned about lane changing going north from Upper Lewes Road 3
Want cycle lane on the right side or in the centre 3
Make roads one way (Upper Lewes Rd) or block off side roads 2
Traffic merging at Gyratory is currently dangerous 1
Needs more pedestrian crossings at Lewes Rd/ White Crow/ Petrol Station 1
Will make it more difficult for the less able-bodied to get to Sainsbury’s 1
Make Pope’s Folly into a cycle route 1
And these were the comments of those in favour of the scheme...
Vogue Gyratory has always been dangerous for walking/ cycling 54
Even with proposed changed there are still concerns about Sainsburys
entrance
36
Traffic signals need rephasing 20
Take out the "island" and start again/ the island is the problem, getting out of
the BP garage is the problem
19
General positive comments 17
Entrance to Sainsbury's is dangerous and needs improving 15
Cars turning across the cycle lane (L turns into Hollingdean) will be
dangerous
14
This will make things worse/ cause more congestion. More pollution/ be more
dangerous
13
Needs to be more done for pedestrians at the Sainsbury's exit 13
Traffic merging at Gyratory is currently dangerous 5
Cycling from Hollingdean into town will be difficult 3
Concerned about lane changing going north from Upper Lewes Road 3
Going north from Upper Lewes Road to to Lewes Road will be difficult 2
Needs more pedestrian crossings at Lewes Rd/ White Crow/ Petrol Station 2
Don't want cycle priority 2
Cycle lanes are dangerous/ this will be more dangerous for cyclists 1
Needs better signage (to avoid being in the wrong lane) 1
Moving lights at west side will make using Sainsbury's entrance worse 1
Want cycle lane on the right side or in the centre 1'
My point is, if the proposals were put forward, and people weren't asked to give a For/Against answer, but to just comment, then the comments be quantified, a different outcome would be reached...
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driller
my life my word
You will have to go to work via Plumpton
Or get a bike
Gosh Did I just, say that!!
Freddie Goodwin.
Well-known member
I, like many others, was shocked by the result. I know the local Labour cllrs were wondering how they could over rule 4,000 'against' only to find that most were in favour.
The lesson is that it's no point just saying you are for/against something, you have to VOTE. Those who really wanted the scheme voted, those who grumbled against seemingly couldn't be bothered. The vote was also open to all via the BHCC website.
Seems we'll just have to suck it up & see. Oh, and it'll take a year of roadworks to even implement the changes.
The lesson is that it's no point just saying you are for/against something, you have to VOTE. Those who really wanted the scheme voted, those who grumbled against seemingly couldn't be bothered. The vote was also open to all via the BHCC website.
Seems we'll just have to suck it up & see. Oh, and it'll take a year of roadworks to even implement the changes.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
And the taxi trade agree with it.
Having attended a couple of presentations on the proposals, I'm convinced it will make the Vogue gyratory safer for pedestrians, as well as cyclists. Some important details have been changed (for the better) in response to the consultations. Simplifying the traffic signals and road layout will improve traffic flows, not worsen them. And the area will look better, too.
No scheme will ever be perfect, since there will always be issues with traffic entering and emerging from Sainsburys - and the Council doesn't have either the powers or the funds to do anything to move the entrance to the car park.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Here we go again! "Using a bus in Brighton is just too expensive".
And here I go again. If that's the case, why is Brighton just about the only city in Britain, outside London, where bus use has continued to grow, every year for the past 20 years?
And your "£1 for fuel" isn't the only marginal cost you have to pay to drive your vehicle into central Brighton.