Smoking ban - something I didn't consider!

[tedebear]

So, would it be OK to say that you have "the choice" to work in an enviroment with racist, homophobic or sexist colleagues? You could "chose" to leave, and all.

No, it wouldn't. Similarly, there is no wiggle room for exclusions from this ban, simple as.

As goes voting on the issue - were you entitled to vote in the 2005 election? If so, you did effectively vote for or against it.

I'm not wriggling any exclusions - whats done is done, what concerns me is that those who campaigned for this ban haven't really thought the implications through.

I don't see the correlation between racist, homophobic or sexism, to be honest though mate, all of those are illegal and whomever carries out those attacks should be fired.

All I'm saying - specifically in relation to pubs and clubs, why wasn't the landlord offered the choice? Why as grown adults are we not able to make the choice between attending/working/visitng a smoking pub or a non smoking pub. Are we so stupid as to not be able to make the choice?

 

[Cian]

I'm not wriggling any exclusions - whats done is done, what concerns me is that those who campaigned for this ban haven't really thought the implications through.

I don't see the correlation between racist, homophobic or sexism, to be honest though mate, all of those are illegal and whomever carries out those attacks should be fired.

All I'm saying - specifically in relation to pubs and clubs, why wasn't the landlord offered the choice? Why as grown adults are we not able to make the choice between attending/working/visitng a smoking pub or a non smoking pub. Are we so stupid as to not be able to make the choice?

Yes, and as of 8 days ago, smoking in a workplace is illegal, and anyone who does it should be fired. There is no way you can get an exclusion to that. A pub is a workplace, yet we don't allow "sexist pubs" or "racist pubs" (well, at least not officially...)

 

[tedebear]

Yes, and as of 8 days ago, smoking in a workplace is illegal, and anyone who does it should be fired. There is no way you can get an exclusion to that. A pub is a workplace, yet we don't allow "sexist pubs" or "racist pubs" (well, at least not officially...)

Yes I know its now illegal, kind of easy way to end the debate though...

Why can't we have a choice?

 

[Cian]

Yes I know its now illegal, kind of easy way to end the debate though...

Why can't we have a choice?

Because it wouldn't be a ban if you had a choice!

For one last time, it IS NOT A PUB SMOKING BAN. It is a WORKPLACE smoking ban. This covers everything and a choice would defeat the purpose.

 

[tedebear]

Because it wouldn't be a ban if you had a choice!

For one last time, it IS NOT A PUB SMOKING BAN. It is a WORKPLACE smoking ban. This covers everything and a choice would defeat the purpose.

Hold on - don't get upset with me... I know what the ban is ...why can't anyone answer my question wihtout getting exasperated? Its not that hard?

 

[Cian]

Hold on - don't get upset with me... I know what the ban is ...why can't anyone answer my question wihtout getting exasperated? Its not that hard?

Everyone has, but you keep asking it!

"A ban is a ban - it covers everything. It is impossible to have exclusions."

There is your answer. Please stop asking the question.

 

[cjd]

Everyone has, but you keep asking it!

"A ban is a ban - it covers everything. It is impossible to have exclusions."

There is your answer. Please stop asking the question.

I,m fairly certain there are exclusions.............Care-Homes for the elderly.

 

[tedebear]

Thats not my question though - WHY is it impossible to have exclusions is my question! Why can't we make the choice ourselves?

 

[Cian]

I,m fairly certain there are exclusions.............Care-Homes for the elderly.

They're classified as private residences, just as they are here.

Pubs and nightclubs are not private residences (even with the surreal way pubs are owned in the UK). These do not have any exclusions, and if any were brought in, they'd have to cover all workplaces - meaning the situation would be exactly the same as before the ban.

 

[British Bulldog]

I,m fairly certain there are exclusions.............Care-Homes for the elderly.

I think the residents in care homes are allowed to smoke but the carers are not, I think that applies to prisons as well where the prisoners can smoke but not the wardens.

 

[Cian]

Thats not my question though - WHY is it impossible to have exclusions is my question! Why can't we make the choice ourselves?

Because if they allowed exclusions for one, they'd have to allow them for all, meaning the ban would mean absolutely nothing. You've been told this also in this thread. It is legally impossible to give an exclusion to one class of workplace (which is not a residence) and not another.

They have identical bans back in certain states in Australia, so I really can't see how you can't understand this.

 

[British Bulldog]

I'll be interested to see how much the smoking ban at work affects smokers performance in their job and whether or not it will increase they're sickness level.

 

[cjd]

I think the residents in care homes are allowed to smoke but the carers are not, I think that applies to prisons as well where the prisoners can smoke but not the wardens.

You are quite right................and despite all the stuff about smoking/non smoking, it is an exclusion that I am very very pleased, and relieved that the elderly who have smoked all their lives, can continue to do so, even though they are in a place where people work.

 

[bristolseagull]

What if you are a gay smoker?

f***ed

 

[Cian]

I'll be interested to see how much the smoking ban at work affects smokers performance in their job and whether or not it will increase they're sickness level.

From here, I'd say very little - the vast majority of white collar workplaces had already banned smoking inside the building many years before; teaching is about the only exception I can think of, and they could only really get away with smoking on pre-defined breaks anyway.

 

[tedebear]

Because if they allowed exclusions for one, they'd have to allow them for all, meaning the ban would mean absolutely nothing. You've been told this also in this thread. It is legally impossible to give an exclusion to one class of workplace (which is not a residence) and not another.

They have identical bans back in certain states in Australia, so I really can't see how you can't understand this.

No - I'm specifically talking about pubs and clubs, and yes I have the same beef with Australia - as does a growing group of people - who have realized whats happened and where they are heading....Drinking alcohol on southern sydney beaches has recently been banned in the same fashion....want that here?

I hope you're not patronising me with your last sentence - I understand this more than you realize - and am trying to make you see what you've lost with your choice to back this.

 

[British Bulldog]

From here, I'd say very little - the vast majority of white collar workplaces had already banned smoking inside the building many years before; teaching is about the only exception I can think of, and they could only really get away with smoking on pre-defined breaks anyway.

From a personal point of view i've had more days off sick through trying to pack up smoking than I ever have had through smoking related illnesses, It will be the same the next time I try and pack up as well.

 

[Cian]

No - I'm specifically talking about pubs and clubs, and yes I have the same beef with Australia - as does a growing group of people - who have realized whats happened and where they are heading....Drinking alcohol on southern sydney beaches has recently been banned in the same fashion....want that here?

I hope you're not patronising me with your last sentence - I understand this more than you realize - and am trying to make you see what you've lost with your choice to back this.

Drinking alcohol on beaches has been illegal in the county I'm from for 40+ years, so its not a case of "wanting it", its "having it". I believe every other county has it banned, too, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

I've not lost anything, and while you may bleat about civil liberties, you can't prove theres been any further creep, as goes losing them. You appear to be rotating around the issue, and you're not going to be able to get any further on it.

This smoking ban has been looming over the horizon for YEARS, its not something sprung up recently. And here, where it was brought in three years ago, the past 15 years have seen more advances in citizens rights - relaxed abortion rules, decriminilisation of homosexuality, equality laws, legislative divorce (rather than church annulment only), etc - than the one single restriction you seem to be obsessed with! The UK has had similar increases in equality laws.

 

[Cian]

From a personal point of view i've had more days off sick through trying to pack up smoking than I ever have had through smoking related illnesses, It will be the same the next time I try and pack up as well.

Nothing says the smoking ban is going to make you try and give up, though - theres been an increase in the number of smokers here and Scotland since the bans.

 

[H block]

On a lesser note , has anyone noticed the number of new awnings that have gone up at pubs to cater for smokers

The one outside my local is already damaged... yes thats right.









Awning has broken.