Might as well just set up an auto bounce for this every November. He'll never change and neither will anyone offended by it. It's the ultimate stalemate.
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Sergio Aguero Shows Respect-Take Note James Mclean
- Thread starter alfredmizen
- Start date
el punal
Well-known member
Yes, you could ponce a free one, but would you make a contribution to the Royal British Legion to help those that have served and suffered for our country?
I agree with your first point.
The second is a bit more tricky as it's not the same IRA you referenced in your quote. Since the Good Friday Agreement, there's been a number of spin-offs including RIRA and now the New IRA etc. and none of them involve the same people or resemble the original IRA.
Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 7,419
Seems a leap for Wrexham fans to sing 'He hates the F-ng king' because he wouldn't wear a poppy. Hating the monarchy and supporting the British Legion aren't mutually exclusive. I wear one every year and have no time at all for the monarchy. Next time, perhaps they should sing:
"James McLean is evidence that we all come from different backgrounds and have different attitudes to the history of our nations and communities. Though a lot of us wear a poppy at this time of year to honour those who died in conflicts, we understand nuance and realise that some of those conflicts were fought in order that we could all live free and have our own opinions without fear of reprisal, even if they might be unpopular with the majority." To the tune of 'Yellow Submarine" prob'ly.
"James McLean is evidence that we all come from different backgrounds and have different attitudes to the history of our nations and communities. Though a lot of us wear a poppy at this time of year to honour those who died in conflicts, we understand nuance and realise that some of those conflicts were fought in order that we could all live free and have our own opinions without fear of reprisal, even if they might be unpopular with the majority." To the tune of 'Yellow Submarine" prob'ly.
I do every year. Just never wear a poppy.
Official Old Man
Uckfield Seagull
Mikel Arteta in tears yesterday during the last post. The camera should have done the right thing and panned away.
Caller on 5Live this morning about a letter a lady was passed on from her family, from her great uncle Walter, who wrote a letter whilst in the trenches on the 9th January 1918 saying not to worry about him. He was killed going over the top on the 10 January 1918.
For him and those like him who gave their lives for us, I will always wear a poppy and stand in silence in rememberance.
Caller on 5Live this morning about a letter a lady was passed on from her family, from her great uncle Walter, who wrote a letter whilst in the trenches on the 9th January 1918 saying not to worry about him. He was killed going over the top on the 10 January 1918.
For him and those like him who gave their lives for us, I will always wear a poppy and stand in silence in rememberance.
Lenny Rider
Well-known member
- Sep 15, 2010
- 6,090
Either that or start a new one.
We've had a 9 second 'minutes' silence at Kilmarnock courtesy of the 'great and the good' of Glasgow Celtic and he's behaved like that on the day we remember the fallen, as someone who had grandparents and great grandparents who fought in both wars I find his 'stance', now stretching over a decade, extremely disrespectful.
Clearly you don't old boy, so on this matter we will have to agree to differ.
"I may not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"Either that or start a new one.
We've had a 9 second 'minutes' silence at Kilmarnock courtesy of the 'great and the good' of Glasgow Celtic and he's behaved like that on the day we remember the fallen, as someone who had grandparents and great grandparents who fought in both wars I find his 'stance', now stretching over a decade, extremely disrespectful.
Clearly you don't old boy, so on this matter we will have to agree to differ.
My family has a long history of military service in all three branches, and all those I was lucky enough to know felt that it was the freedom to express differing views which was the key to what was fought for.
I am someone who buys a poppy, watches the FoR and attends Remembrance services, because that is what I feel is appropriate. Others feel differently, as is their right whether you, I or anyone else like it or not.
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ATFC Seagull
Aberystwyth Town FC
I thought he explained himself very well on social media:
MattBackHome
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 11,893
Precisely, nothing wrong with what he says here (even though I disagree yada yada etc)
- Apr 5, 2014
- 26,340
I think it's sad that some folk seemed so wrapped up in all this and somehow diverge from it's point. If he was condemning remembrance that would be another matter, but he so clearly isn't.
Most of us will have a relation, near or distant, who was a war victim. I think mine are all First World War, although some served in the second. Remembrance is about their willingness to serve and pay the ultimate price. I feel that right. But sometimes I wonder of its function. It feels like more than that these days. There is something that feels political about it and has been alluded to in the above message. And I find myself once thinking of solemn reflection as a rightful thing and now almost seeing it as being weaponised, and it makes me uncomfortable. Not least for the memories of those poor souls. The introduction of Armed Forces Day was more to do with supporting conflicts and deployment, there is also the condemnation of white poppies as a symbol of peace (what purpose did folk die for if it wasn't for a lasting peace ?).
Wearing a poppy is meaningless if it involves a kind of appropriated honour that connects us to those who lost their lives and somehow makes us equally worthy. And those are the people who attack James Mclean. Our duty to their memory is to work for peace and reconciliation. Otherwise their deaths will have accomplished nothing. And that is far more insulting than not wearing a poppy will ever be.
James Mclean isn't the problem, those who attack him are.
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I must confess that I have changed my take over the years and proudly wear my (BHA) poppy these days.
And UK society has changed, largely driven by the TV, with presenters once wearing a poppy only on remembrance day itself, and not all of them, to it becoming compulsory on every live programme starting weeks before remembrance day.
And I am OK with that. It is clearly presented as remembrance for all those who fell in WWI and all conflicts afterwards. If some public-facing people need reminding, so it goes. It has a pro-peace message.
Maybe it means something different to others.
Overall I am comfortable with it and regard it as an excellent show of respect for the dead. Something that was widely and flippantly mocked in the 60s and 70s when I grew up, by the nation at large. Albeit, and I wouldn't know, perhaps 'out there' it still is. I appreciate I live in a bubble.
As for the Irishman, I have no problem with him and his stance. I may have done in the past, but . . . . things and people change. Thankfully.
- Apr 5, 2014
- 26,340
I understand what you say from the point that an act of remembrance is of no value without a duty to the memory of the fallen. I know that you recognise that and therefore your wearing of the poppy is naturally a wholesome act. This is probably the case with most folk who do as well.
This time of year makes me reflective about the values of a society rather than nationhood itself. As much as it indeed was, I equally think, for example, of World War II as as the death of millions of people in terrible circumstance as much as an Allied victory . When I think of the Falklands Conflict, the original subject here, I think as much of the Argentine conscripts who were sent to their deaths in front of a highly trained Western army. I think that perspective makes me feel more challenged. It makes me ask 'Why ?' for humankind. It also make me think of how the brave forces are subject to the political whims of old men in suits.
I think poppies are a fantastic symbol of reflection, and an avenue to a wider perspective of human conflict. What better way to serve a memory than by creating a better world. If there is an afterlife we could better look those who passed in the eyes.
I think I've put that right.
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He’s probably taken his poppy tree down as well, the bastard
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Indeed.
And the pernicious reasons for the creation of this thread remain, with the OP eventually shown the door for borderline emotional self-harm. Oh, and abuse.
Some of the early posts that invent an imaginary cohort of self-loathing haters of all 'things' British, hell-bent on preventing people showing respect for the dead, are embarrassing to read.
I wish the thread hadn't been bounced and would hope it might be closed off now by a moderator.
Lenny Rider
Well-known member
- Sep 15, 2010
- 6,090
Sorry for bouncing but I felt regardless of his missal on social media, and there are clearly two versions of Bloody Sunday, and almost certainly a bit closer to the truth in the middle, he was in the wrong standing away from his colleagues, in hindsight waiting in the tunnel and then entering the pitch in the ref’s whistle would have preserved his beliefs and not flagged up the whole situation again for the umpteenth year.
Maybe, if you imagine that none of the cameras and none of the spectators would have been looking for him or reacted once he jogged onto the pitch. Oh, hang on....
(Maybe he could just put a paper bag over his head?)
As for bloody Sunday, I am sure one can propose contributory negligence for the shootings, but I have made my views on contributory negligence clear on numerous occasions.
And I'm not inclined to argue with an Irish footballer whether or not he has a right to feel pissed off about bloody Sunday. I'm more attracted to the Alan Partridge position, from my cozy nook in the south of England, when it comes to further discussion on that.
Best wishes, young man
If only people that screamed at him had as much reason in their point.
Not much point in starting a debate with Buzzer, he left NSC years ago. Someone I rarely agreed with on politics at least, but always carefully read his arguments. He always held his own in that regard.
It was when that idiot kicked off at Marseille, that I was reminded of the Op. Who misses threats to turn up on your doorstep for a fight? When people talk about the glory days of NSC, some things inevitably get glossed over.
My remembrance day highlight was catching the Eric Ravilious documentary on Sky Arts. War painter who died in action and captured some of the finest views of the Sussex Downs in water colour. The Towner gallery in Eastbourne has a great collection of his works.