Russian Siege Over

[itszamora]

The BBC is now reporting upwards of 150 casualties

Any sympathy the Chechens had in the eyes of the world is going to be hard pressed to survive this

 

[Scotty Mac]

was watching it on sky news earlier - awful scenes of kids going off on stretchers and stuff. the terrosits that escaped are now in another part of the school compound or something. its not good

 

[spidey]

Anyone who takes innocent kids hostage are SCUM, whatever their motives.
They will rot in hell.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

Anyone who takes anyone innocent hostage is scum.

This really shows up that the Russian "Special" Army are not special atall. Some of this has been a real sham to say the least

 

[itszamora]

True BAG, but they are saying their hand was forced by the explosions purportedly triggered by some hostages trying to escape.

The truth of this is of course debatable, and I saw an ex-SAS guy on Newsnight yesterday saying as soon as the team arrive they make a plan for just that eventuality - which seems to run contrary to the Russian guy who said to the media: "I want to point out that no military action was planned,"

Seems they haven't learned their lessons from the horrendous fkup at that Moscow theatre two years ago. Also interesting how Putin hasn't said anything yet.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

Also interesting how Putin hasn't said anything yet.

yeah, it seems like its going exactly back to the soviet days, where the government jsut say nothing and hope that it goes away!!!

 

[US Seagull]

RUSSIA PULLS OUT, and appogises,

Shames theres no oils fields there else the yanks would have sorted this ages ago !!

Shows how little you know. There is oil in Chechnya.

Before the 1994-96 war, Grozny's network of refineries made it the second biggest oil city in the region after Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan. Geologists said up to 200 billion barrels lay beneath the Caspian, and there was every sign that Moscow would retain a leading role in the lucrative business of selling it. The Russian pipeline which pumped 100,000 barrels of crude a day to the Black Sea has been closed since summer.

Shame you don't know how to use google.

Now I don't know all the truth to this, but I've heard it claimed (by Russians) that Chechnya was granted a level of automony and then proceeded to attempt to invade neighboring provinces and establish an islamic state in southern Russia

 

[smudge]

It WAS independant state till Russia changed its mind

N Ireland is completely different situation

Its not terrorism its PAYBACK !!

Payback, killing innocent children?

You are beyond belief. Watch the TV pictures of those kids then get of your high horse.

How would you feel if it happened to yours?

I really want to get very angry, but the events on TV make me realise that you & people like you just aren't worth it.

 

[B.M.F]

Just had a chat with my girlfriend ( she lives in St Petersburg ) and she said that Putin thinks that all the recent activity is by Bin Ladens followers who have had close links with Chechnya for some time ( there have already been reports about arabs being involved ). The reason they are involved is due to Russia supporting George Bush in his persuit of Bin Laden and of the stance in Iraq.

I for one say R.I.P to all the poor souls that have lost their lives today just for going to school

 

[NMH]

It WAS independant state till Russia changed its mind

N Ireland is completely different situation

Its not terrorism its PAYBACK !!

As independent states go, it was pretty similar to N. Ireland in that the inhabitants were at each other's throats, and with factions likely to war with each other to claim 'control'.

It's a bit more like the situation that was exacerbated and developed a little further in Yugoslavia - and no matter who takes which side they are only supporting one tyrannical point over another. Russia may be trying a blanket control over all factions, and they end up being the terrorised. That's pretty much like Britain's policing of N.Ireland isn't it?

 

[Albion Dan]

If you can in no way understand what drove the Chechnyans to do what they did then I suggest you check out the following site.

This is what Russian sioldiers did to villagers they accused of harbouring chechnyan rebels. If this happened to memebrs of your family would you really care about anything other than trying to get revenge??

I dont agree with kidnapping kids but i can see why individuals are driven to such drastic measures, Horrors far worse than this kidnapping happen in Chechnya all the time and no one even knows, even fewer seem to care!

WARNING: THESE PICTURES ARE DISTURBING SO DONT BLAME ME IF YOU CLICK ON THE LINK!

http://www.hrvc.net/htmls/graves.htm

 

[London Irish]

The BBC is now reporting upwards of 150 casualties

Any sympathy the Chechens had in the eyes of the world is going to be hard pressed to survive this

Probably the opposite in fact. The tragic thing is that this atrocity will focus the world's attention on this appalling, forgotten conflict and there might now be some concerted international pressure on the Russians to compromise their bloodthirsty approach. The Chechen rebels will then have finally succeeded in their goal of telling the world about their plight.

If I could just appeal for people to rein in their selective moral outrage.

The lives of people killed in front of western TV cameras are not more valuable than the countless numbers that have already been slaughtered in this war.

They are all victims of this appalling political tragedy. There is no such thing as "evil", appalling political circumstances usually are behind appalling acts such as this bloodbath. This is not an excuse, as weak-minded people might think, but a plea to understand the political conflicts and to address a political process that can somehow reconcile the Russians and the Chechens.

 

[Sorrel]

I dont agree with kidnapping kids but i can see why individuals are driven to such drastic measures

They weren't just kidnapping children, they were shooting them in them in the back as they were running away. For some of these children, this was their first day at school. I don't believe that the crimes committed by the Russians in Chechnya are of the same level of brutality.

But no doubt someone will let me know how my disgust is really just mis-information, and that the Chechen cause is worthy. It may be, but I won't ever be supporting it.

 

[US Seagull]

But no doubt someone will let me know how my disgust is really just mis-information, and that the Chechen cause is worthy. It may be, but I won't ever be supporting it.

Here, here

All this talk about what the Russian may or may not have done doesn't change the fact that these terrorists just killed a bunch or innocent children. Too wrongs don't make a right and all that, especially if one of the wrongs is so absolutely disgusting to any right-minded person.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

They've both been at each other's throats since the 1830s, its one of those interminable conflicts that never seem to have an end and consequently one atrocity leads to another with both sides capable of extreme violence on innocent bystanders to the political conflict. Stalin sought to solve the problem by deporting the entire Chechen nation to the gulags of Siberia during the Second World War. However, they returned in the early 1950s and soon clashed with Russians and other ethnic groupings who had moved into their homes. As someone has already mentioned Chechen politics is rife with clan groupings and the declaration of Independence proclaimed in 1992 is wound up in this and Russia's meddling.

Its a vicious circle. From the Chechen viewpoint Russian soldiers have destroyed their homes, killed their relatives and made life unbearable for a number of people, to the more extreme why should they feel they should act with morals and ethics when their foes have clearly not bothered, to them an eye is worth an eye. To the Russians the Chechen terrorists show no compunction in targetting the weakest memebers of their society in order to achieve their aims. Why then should they not deal with them forcibly and show them no mercy? Trouble is where does it begin and where does it end?

 

[London Irish]

Here, here

All this talk about what the Russian may or may not have done doesn't change the fact that these terrorists just killed a bunch or innocent children. Too wrongs don't make a right and all that, especially if one of the wrongs is so absolutely disgusting to any right-minded person.

Simplistic humbug. Creating a false argument that people are referring to these acts of barbarism as a "right" is the same bullshit that paralyses the Isreali/Palestinian debate, particularly in the part of the world where you live.

 

[Safeway]

I don't know nearly enough about the whole situation to start apportioning blame, although that's not to say I wasn't upset and moved at todays pictures. Whatever the bigger picture, to see young children killed and wounded like they were today is extremely depressing.

However, I would just like to add my two pennies worth regarding the final outcome.

From the moment the Chechens started blowing themselves up and shooting at the children the Russian forces had no option but to go in. Any other army/police force in the world would have done the same. Yes they f***ed up with the theatre seige before, but this was totally different.

People have been quick to criticise the Russian military but what else could they do - sit by and wait for everyone to be killed?

The death toll is now predicted to be in the region of 300 but that's not the direct fault of the Russians. But for the storming of the school many more could have perished.

 

[spidey]

LI,

What you post usually makes a lot of sense & i'm sure you understand the reasons for this barbaric act better than me, but whether they did it in the name of politics or religion doesn't matter.
It is act of evil, & I for one will have difficulty having any further sympathy for their 'cause'.

 

[Lush]

From the moment the Chechens started blowing themselves up and shooting at the children the Russian forces had no option but to go in.

Also - it sounds like there were dads of kids inside who had weapons at home and went and got them.

Who could swear hand on heart that if THEIR kid was inside they wouldn't have done the same?

Emotions take over common sense in situations like these.

The people who are to blame for the childrens deaths are the hostage takers.

Who is to blame for the problem in Chechyna is another issue.

 

[DJ Leon]

As usual the questions are being asked about who is to blame. And as usual I fail to see how anyone can see anything beyond the actions of these people in taking hostages and killing children in a school.

If we stopped talking about what Putin has or hasn't done or how the army and emergency services coped and started concentrating on nothing but the singular condemnation of the people responsible then we might be able to fight terrorism properly. Unfortunately we seem unable to do this and becasue of this, this kind of thing will happen again and again.