I've yet to see any evidence that Trump isn't working for Russia.
America needs to sort its shit out.
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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
I've yet to see any evidence that Trump isn't working for Russia.
America needs to sort its shit out.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,691
In the guardian, when mentioning the US has stopped intelligence sharing today in addtion to arms supplies before, theres this quote from an un-named US official.I didn't reply properly before...yes, I'm expecting a shit show. I can't imagine Trump is suddenly going to pivot and support Ukraine.
I expect Trump to denounce Zelenskiy at some point again ' he's not serious about peace, he won't stand down, he won't relinquish fully the part occupied states. I mean, Russia has lost thousands of soldiers, they've earned the right to increase their prize '
I hope to goodness that I'm wrong
"White House officials indicated that both bans could be lifted if peace talks make progress."
So yesterday, the arms ban was to the victim to the negotiating table, Zelensky since made that humble response....... then today, its additionally stopping the sharing of intel, which costs nothing in monetry terms,and now the goalposts move again, and its not just getting to the table, its "if peace talks progress".
I think it should start to become painfully clear what the intent is, at this negotiating table, they're going to try and strong arm Ukraine into a Russian capitulation "deal" and will be witholding all aid and intel unless they sign up to this.
Yes, that's how it looks unfortunately.
Waltz said something about the bans could be lifted if there's "constructive" something - sorry, I don't want to watch his video again.
I am sure Zelenskiy is being set up for ambush mk 2.
If so it's a fxcking disgrace.
As you rightly say, the goalposts have moved, and I'm convinced they will continue to be moved until Zelenskiy is denounced again.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 8,164
My instinct is to write something to make you feel better, but in my heart, I think you are probably correct.
There has been no talk or indication of pressure on Russia. None.
I hope we increase our support such that Ukraine don't have to accept poor terms, and one day the US realise Russia won't win, and decide to help democracy again. I'm suspecting that can't be with Trump, but I'd like to be proven wrong.
Our response continues to be appropriate it seems.
Starmer's strategy for dealing with Team Trump outbursts
The PM refrained from criticizing JD Vance and chose to read out the names of fallen British soldiers.
www.bbc.co.uk
Exactly that,Trig, zero evidence to the contrary (Trump,Vance and Musk) - the rest I think are blinded by the light and being dragged along.
Hopefully the fact that Kellogg hasn't resigned means he may still feel he has some positive role to play.
Probably best at the moment. I'd vouch for you though
Russian warship tracked near British waters by Royal Navy
The Russian warship had been escorting a cargo ship on its voyage from Syria through the English Channel and North Sea.www.bbc.co.uk
See now if I was in authority maybe just sink it and say it wasn’t us. It’s what Russia does.
Probably best I’m not
- Aug 24, 2020
- 8,164
There is hope. All you have to do is look for it.
There is a lot of encouraging detail in this article. A lot.
And then there's the reason why Russia is losing so many troops.
'Today, the [Ukrainian armed forces] use large numbers of distributed sensors, UAVs and robotic systems in combination with traditional artillery and armored vehicles to create a 15-kilometer zone in front of its units over which Russian troops are attrited as they advance' - Dr. Jack Watling, RUSI.
There is a lot of encouraging detail in this article. A lot.
And then there's the reason why Russia is losing so many troops.
'Today, the [Ukrainian armed forces] use large numbers of distributed sensors, UAVs and robotic systems in combination with traditional artillery and armored vehicles to create a 15-kilometer zone in front of its units over which Russian troops are attrited as they advance' - Dr. Jack Watling, RUSI.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,691
Just seen this, not sure anyone will listen, but spot on. He posted it to his facebook page.
www.theguardian.com
Former President of Poland Lech Walesa wrote the following letter to Trump.
Your Excellency, Mr. President,
We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s russia.
We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.
Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.
The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.
We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.
Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.
We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.
Signed,
Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland
Lech Wałęsa expresses ‘horror and distaste’ at Trump’s treatment of Zelenskyy
Ex-Polish leader, who won Nobel prize for pro-democracy efforts, compares meeting to a communist interrogation
www.theguardian.com
Former President of Poland Lech Walesa wrote the following letter to Trump.
Your Excellency, Mr. President,
We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s russia.
We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.
Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.
The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.
We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.
Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.
We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.
Signed,
Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland
Excellent from him, thanks for posting - I follow him, but recently I haven't received these updates.
Zelenskiy is a true statesman and the only adult that was in the Oval Office (there could have been a few others but cowering silently in the corner)
Probably Trump will take it as a personal red flag that Zelenskiy has dared to publically restate those lines in the sand.
I hope Europe has a planB of some sort almost ready, and Zelenskiy must insist that one or two European leaders travel with him - this divide and conquer bull shit has to stop.
A brilliant letter. Will be wasted on Trump of course, but this letter needs to be quoted in future history books, whatever happens from now on.Just seen this, not sure anyone will listen, but spot on. He posted it to his facebook page.
Lech Wałęsa expresses ‘horror and distaste’ at Trump’s treatment of Zelenskyy
Ex-Polish leader, who won Nobel prize for pro-democracy efforts, compares meeting to a communist interrogation
View attachment 197817
Former President of Poland Lech Walesa wrote the following letter to Trump.
Your Excellency, Mr. President,
We watched the report of your conversation with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, with fear and distaste. We find it insulting that you expect Ukraine to show respect and gratitude for the material assistance provided by the United States in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who shed their blood in defense of the values of the free world. They have been dying on the front lines for more than 11 years in the name of these values and the independence of their homeland, which was attacked by Putin’s russia.
We do not understand how the leader of a country that symbolizes the free world cannot recognize this.
Our alarm was also heightened by the atmosphere in the Oval Office during this conversation, which reminded us of the interrogations we endured at the hands of the Security Services and the debates in Communist courts. Prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the all-powerful communist political police, would explain to us that they held all the power while we held none. They demanded that we cease our activities, arguing that thousands of innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms and civil rights because we refused to cooperate with the government or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Volodymyr Zelensky was treated in the same manner.
The history of the 20th century shows that whenever the United States sought to distance itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately became a threat to itself. President Woodrow Wilson understood this when he decided in 1917 that the United States must join World War I. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt understood this when, after the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941, he resolved that the war to defend America must be fought not only in the Pacific but also in Europe, in alliance with the nations under attack by the Third Reich.
We remember that without President Ronald Reagan and America’s financial commitment, the collapse of the Soviet empire would not have been possible. President Reagan recognized that millions of enslaved people suffered in Soviet russia and the countries it had subjugated, including thousands of political prisoners who paid for their defense of democratic values with their freedom. His greatness lay, among other things, in his unwavering decision to call the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and to fight it decisively. We won, and today, the statue of President Ronald Reagan stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.
Mr. President, material aid—military and financial—can never be equated with the blood shed in the name of Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the entire free world. Human life is priceless; its value cannot be measured in money. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and their freedom. This is self-evident to us, the people of Solidarity, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.
We call on the United States to uphold the guarantees made alongside Great Britain in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s territorial integrity in exchange for its relinquishment of nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional—there is no mention of treating such assistance as an economic transaction.
Signed,
Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland
King Chas needs to release one as well. Informing the **** that he would not allow a state visit until he started to fully support Ukraine and Europe. If and only then will he get his state visit to CANADA
Last edited:
Post from Jake Broe
I do not recognize the country that I currently live in now. Elon Musk is dictating all of our domestic policies and Vladimir Putin is dictating all of our f...
youtube.com
- Jul 10, 2003
- 28,630
Imagine if 10 years of pumping 'dodgy untraceable' money into populist policies, parties and politicians across the west has left the Western World completely fragmented and fighting amongst themselves.
Who knew
It's almost as if someone knew all along
Who knew
It's almost as if someone knew all along
- Aug 24, 2020
- 8,164
Post from Jake Broe
I do not recognize the country that I currently live in now. Elon Musk is dictating all of our domestic policies and Vladimir Putin is dictating all of our f...
Some of the replies to that article are very good.Imagine if 10 years of pumping 'dodgy untraceable' money into populist policies, parties and politicians across the west has left the Western World completely fragmented and fighting amongst themselves.
Who knew
It's almost as if someone knew all along
Someone suggests a second American Revolution and there's a reply to the effect 'if there were, Putin would be supporting both sides'.
Doug-ees-evil
Active member
- Nov 18, 2011
- 105
Saying it out loud now.. The world as we've known it has changed very quickly..
“I want to believe that the US will stand by our side, but we have to be ready for that not to be the case,” he said.
www.theguardian.com
Macron says Europe needs to be 'ready' for the US to 'not be at our side'
Macron said Russia cannot be taken at its word. “We cannot forget Russia started its invasion of Ukraine in 2014 and we negotiated the Minsk Accords ceasefire,” he said. He said France will continue to meet with allies with the goal of signing a “lasting, solid, verifiable peace agreement”. He said he has been working with European partners and Ukraine on this plan, and that he went to “advocate” for the plan when he visited Donald Trump last week.“I want to believe that the US will stand by our side, but we have to be ready for that not to be the case,” he said.
Macron open to extending France’s nuclear umbrella to European allies as US reconsiders Ukraine funding – live
French president says he will debate offer at European summit to be attended by Ukraine’s president Zelenskyy
www.theguardian.com
- Aug 24, 2020
- 8,164
Trump is reportedly ready to lift sanctions:
banjo
GOSBTS
1. Remove military aid to Ukraine
2. Withdraw intelligence assistance to Ukraine
3. Lift sanctions on Russia
How are any of these actions going to persuade Russia that peace, or even a ceasefire, is needed?
Whatever hold Putin has over Trump must be incredibly strong. Unless it is all about his revenge for not digging the dirt on Hunter Biden?