[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eric the meek]

Putting aside the Agent Krasnov / Trump in Putin's pocket thing, the whole episode has been a real shitshow.
The guys down my local pub (The Wilmington since you're asking) could have done better.

The uncertiainty, the inconsistent messaging, the disaster in the Oval Office, the putting of the whole continent of Europe on edge - none of this was necessary. None of it.

The arrogance, ignorance and incompetence of this shower have combined to produce a level of chaos never before seen. Not since the last Trump administration anyway.

 

[raymondo]

1. Remove military aid to Ukraine
2. Withdraw intelligence assistance to Ukraine
3. Lift sanctions on Russia

How are any of these actions going to persuade Russia that peace, or even a ceasefire, is needed?

Whatever hold Putin has over Trump must be incredibly strong. Unless it is all about his revenge for not digging the dirt on Hunter Biden?

Yes it's either or both of those.
I often forget about the Hunter Biden thing. Holding a grudge, very vindictively, is a huge part of Trump's make up.

 

[Eric the meek]

1. Remove military aid to Ukraine
2. Withdraw intelligence assistance to Ukraine
3. Lift sanctions on Russia

How are any of these actions going to persuade Russia that peace, or even a ceasefire, is needed?

Whatever hold Putin has over Trump must be incredibly strong. Unless it is all about his revenge for not digging the dirt on Hunter Biden?

Exactly. Why has Trump made those three concessions up front, with seemingly nothing in return? Why?
Negotiations over the divide of occupied territories hasn't actually begun yet has it?

So many questions.

 

[Bodian]

Yes it's either or both of those.
I often forget about the Hunter Biden thing. Holding a grudge, very vindictively, is a huge part of Trump's make up.

He brought it up himself just before he & Vance laid into Zelensky in the Oval Office.

 

[A1X]

Exactly. Why has Trump made those three concessions up front, with seemingly nothing in return? Why?
Negotiations over the divide of occupied territories hasn't actually begun yet has it?

So many questions.

I’m starting to think he might not be as good at “The Art of the Deal” as he claims he is…

 

[Bodian]

Exactly. Why has Trump made those three concessions up front, with seemingly nothing in return? Why?
Negotiations over the divide of occupied territories hasn't actually begun yet has it?

So many questions.

I also forgot:

4. "Ukraine won't be allowed to join NATO"

 

[Eric the meek]

I’m starting to think he might not be as good at “The Art of the Deal” as he claims he is…

Nah. Give the bloke a chance. Don't bury him.

 

[A mex eyecan]

A brilliant letter. Will be wasted on Trump of course, but this letter needs to be quoted in future history books, whatever happens from now on.

wasted on Turnip, sorry Trump. It’s more than 2 minutes long and has no cartoons or pictures of Uncle Sam. It’s cruel of Lech to inflict such torture on little Donald.

 

[A1X]

Nah. Give the bloke a chance. Don't bury him.

Chance’d be a fine thing…

 

[peterward]

Trump is reportedly ready to lift sanctions:

The USA joins the axis of evil

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

There is hope. All you have to do is look for it.

There is a lot of encouraging detail in this article. A lot.
And then there's the reason why Russia is losing so many troops.

'Today, the [Ukrainian armed forces] use large numbers of distributed sensors, UAVs and robotic systems in combination with traditional artillery and armored vehicles to create a 15-kilometer zone in front of its units over which Russian troops are attrited as they advance' - Dr. Jack Watling, RUSI.

What a brilliant article! Thanks for sharing Eric.

 

[raymondo]

Putting aside the Agent Krasnov / Trump in Putin's pocket thing, the whole episode has been a real shitshow.
The guys down my local pub (The Wilmington since you're asking) could have done better.

The uncertiainty, the inconsistent messaging, the disaster in the Oval Office, the putting of the whole continent of Europe on edge - none of this was necessary. None of it.

The arrogance, ignorance and incompetence of this shower have combined to produce a level of chaos never before seen. Not since the last Trump administration anyway.

I'm convinced it's planned chaos. The ambush, insults, planted questions... disgusting.
It's not accidental incompetence, it's planned malevolence. (I know you know).

 

[raymondo]

He brought it up himself just before he & Vance laid into Zelensky in the Oval Office.

Yes, I remember now... it's all in plain sight.

 

[raymondo]

Exactly. Why has Trump made those three concessions up front, with seemingly nothing in return? Why?
Negotiations over the divide of occupied territories hasn't actually begun yet has it?

So many questions.

He can only be a Putin asset if he doesn't do a 180 tomorrow.

 

[raymondo]

The USA joins the axis of evil

So, when Trump orders the Pentagon and US Defence companies to fulfill Russian orders for weapons (I'm just fast forwarding)...what will happen? Is a military coup too much to hope for?

 

[BN41Albion]

Remember the bloke who asked Zelensky why he wasn't wearing a suit? He is now a victim.

Oh well, never mind

 

[Eric the meek]

I'm convinced it's planned chaos. The ambush, insults, planted questions... disgusting.
It's not accidental incompetence, it's planned malevolence. (I know you know).

Is it either/or? Accidental incompetence or planned malevolence?
I see both having merit. I see examples of both, and I am open to the possibility of both. Neither of them rule out the possibility of the other.

Would Russia have been able to achieve such a level of control to plan everything? No, I don't think so.
Would Russia not have been able to plan malevolence at all? No again, I don't think so.

I think the most likely scenario is some and some.

 

[Triggaaar]

Trump is reportedly ready to lift sanctions:

And what does Russia have to do in return?

 

[peterward]

 

[Triggaaar]

I’m starting to think he might not be as good at “The Art of the Deal” as he claims he is…

I don't think it's about that, I think he's simply on Russia's side.