[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Green Cross Code Man]

The Russian foreign minister just now speaking live mentioned the north sea gas pipe several times. He seems far less bullish today than yesterday. My hope is that the Russians are realizing the strength and future effect of the sanctions upon Russia.

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[raymondo]

According to the Ukrainian Ambassador to the Uk. He says that they only have surveillance drones from Turkey and they have also been working on their own drones but they are not operational yet. But he wouldnt admit they had them even if they did. And I hope that they now have.

Yes, I hope that tons of defensive stuff is happening under the radar

 

[essbee1]

Surely, when western-based shops and services start closing all over Russia (H&M etc etc), people will start to wonder
what the hell is going on. I want to see McDonalds close all its outlets in Russia now. It's a minor thing, but it will make
people think.

 

[hampshirebrightonboy]

The Russian foreign minister just now speaking live mentioned the north sea gas pipe several times. He seems far less bullish today than yesterday. My hope is that the Russians are realizing the strength and future effect of the sanctions upon Russia.

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In what context?

 

[Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ]

I want to see McDonalds close all its outlets in Russia now. It's a minor thing, but it will make
people think.

I was pondering exactly the same thing just a couple of evenings ago. But aren't McDonalds franchises owned by private individuals? The conclusion to my ponder was that even if McDonalds wanted to close their Moscow restaurants the franchise owners could probably continue to operate if they could mitigate any supply chain issues that came up with going rogue (ingredients etc.)

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

In what context?

In the context that Europe is America's lap dog and that the EU did as it was told in order to facilitate greater sales of American oil or some such guff.

He was starting to sound a bit whiny rather than the angry man I saw yesterday. Of course, the interview is in a different context than the head to head one yesterday on BBC.

 

[essbee1]

I was pondering exactly the same thing just a couple of evenings ago. But aren't McDonalds franchises owned by private individuals? The conclusion to my ponder was that even if McDonalds wanted to close their Moscow restaurants the franchise owners could probably continue to operate if they could mitigate any supply chain issues that came up with going rogue (ingredients etc.)

If they do that, then I guess McDonald's could say 'you'll never re-open under our name if you don't close now'.

 

[dazzer6666]

The Russian foreign minister just now speaking live mentioned the north sea gas pipe several times. He seems far less bullish today than yesterday. My hope is that the Russians are realizing the strength and future effect of the sanctions upon Russia.

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Comical Ali levels of misinformation from him on a number of levels perhaps (‘Ukraine’s first Jewish President is the leader of a society where Nazism is in the open’). Interesting that even the Chinese media person is challenging him.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Apologies if already posted, but this is a good thread regarding the probable expectations of the Russian army and what met them in Ukraine from ordinary civilians, the video is extraordinary and demonstrates incredible determination and bravery from Ukrainians:

[tweet]1498797424512765953[/tweet]

 

[rippleman]

Surely, when western-based shops and services start closing all over Russia (H&M etc etc), people will start to wonder
what the hell is going on. I want to see McDonalds close all its outlets in Russia now. It's a minor thing, but it will make
people think.

I also think it is important to boycott retail outlets here that are owned by Russian oligarchs.

As TB reminded us yesterday, Holland & Barrett is owned by Mikhail Fridman who has already been sanctioned. He has resigned from the Board but still owns Holland & Barrett's parent company so shopping at Holland & Barrett is still putting money in his pocket. Hopefully there will be picketing outside of their stores before too long.

If anybody knows of similar organisations run by the "pals of Putin", please post them.

 

[nickbrighton]

I found the constant BBC News alerts, breaking news, etc over the weekend was getting overwhelming. I now limit myself to a catch up in the morning, and at night, and try and avoid the news the rest of the day

I am powerless to help in anyway, and feeling so helpless to do anything about such a horrible, horrible situation was getting to much. My heart breaks for the people of Ukraine .

As an ex military guy I feel I should be able to cope, but I found myself getting more and more anxious and depressed and having skirted with mental health issues before I simply had to step back from the immediacy of it all

In nearly all conflicts I can usually understand what the aggressor hopes to achieve, even if I am totally against that objective, but not this time.

So for my own state of mind I find I have to distance myself from all of this and while keeping appraised of main developments , I am avoiding the videos, the individual tragedies, and the awful suffering.

Does this make me weak and somewhat uncaring? I dont know, I hope not.

 

[Poojah]

I found the constant BBC News alerts, breaking news, etc over the weekend was getting overwhelming. I now limit myself to a catch up in the morning, and at night, and try and avoid the news the rest of the day

I am powerless to help in anyway, and feeling so helpless to do anything about such a horrible, horrible situation was getting to much. My heart breaks for the people of Ukraine .

As an ex military guy I feel I should be able to cope, but I found myself getting more and more anxious and depressed and having skirted with mental health issues before I simply had to step back from the immediacy of it all

In nearly all conflicts I can usually understand what the aggressor hopes to achieve, even if I am totally against that objective, but not this time.

So for my own state of mind I find I have to distance myself from all of this and while keeping appraised of main developments , I am avoiding the videos, the individual tragedies, and the awful suffering.

Does this make me weak and somewhat uncaring? I dont know, I hope not.

I think that’s a perfectly reasonable self-defence mechanism. There’s a lot of suffering in the world; if we didn’t filter much of it out, the world wouldn’t function. It’s not weak or uncaring, it’s normal.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I found the constant BBC News alerts, breaking news, etc over the weekend was getting overwhelming. I now limit myself to a catch up in the morning, and at night, and try and avoid the news the rest of the day

I am powerless to help in anyway, and feeling so helpless to do anything about such a horrible, horrible situation was getting to much. My heart breaks for the people of Ukraine .

As an ex military guy I feel I should be able to cope, but I found myself getting more and more anxious and depressed and having skirted with mental health issues before I simply had to step back from the immediacy of it all

In nearly all conflicts I can usually understand what the aggressor hopes to achieve, even if I am totally against that objective, but not this time.

So for my own state of mind I find I have to distance myself from all of this and while keeping appraised of main developments , I am avoiding the videos, the individual tragedies, and the awful suffering.

Does this make me weak and somewhat uncaring? I dont know, I hope not.

Nope, it shows you are maturely recognising that whilst you are ensuring that you understand what is going on, you are also taking steps to protect your own mental well-being. That's sensible - not uncaring. The fact that you are moved and that the scene is stirring an emotional response is to your credit. I am not ex military, nothing of the sort, but I am unashamed that I have already been moved to tears several times in this war. But like you I am limiting my input as otherwise I would despair, and that doesn't help me, my family nor my colleagues at work. Keep your head up mate!

 

[raymondo]

https://t.co/KidKg8SeSb

apologies if already posted. Usmanov's mega yacht seized by Germany.

and another protester arrested
https://twitter.com/i/status/1499148322698719235

 

[raymondo]

Nope, it shows you are maturely recognising that whilst you are ensuring that you understand what is going on, you are also taking steps to protect your own mental well-being. That's sensible - not uncaring. The fact that you are moved and that the scene is stirring an emotional response is to your credit. I am not ex military, nothing of the sort, but I am unashamed that I have already been moved to tears several times in this war. But like you I am limiting my input as otherwise I would despair, and that doesn't help me, my family nor my colleagues at work. Keep your head up mate!

Spot on

 

[raymondo]

Surely, when western-based shops and services start closing all over Russia (H&M etc etc), people will start to wonder
what the hell is going on. I want to see McDonalds close all its outlets in Russia now. It's a minor thing, but it will make
people think.

But they will be good targets for us to post horrific war photos onto their google reviews - thanks for the idea, I'm off to do some now

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not forgetting Lord Dubs in the House of Lords was one of these children rescued.

[tweet]1498990930002644996[/tweet]

 

[Eric the meek]

Whilst there is some criticism of the sanctions, the impact has been felt incredibly quickly…..Russia’s biggest bank already virtually bankrupt, no liquidity in the banking system generally, two-thirds of Russia’s reserves now frozen etc etc

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/03/02/russias-financial-system-teeters-brink-collapse/

This is also interesting

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...disarray-crying-combat-radio-messages-reveal/

Russian troops are "operating in complete disarray", their morale sapped and "crying in combat", voice recordings of frontline soldiers obtained by a British intelligence company suggest.

Intercepted radio messages indicate that troops are refusing to obey central command orders, including to shell Ukrainian towns, while complaining bitterly about running out of supplies of food or fuel.

Separate video recordings show one group of Russian military walking away from the battle front and heading back across the border, having had enough.

In a text message to his mother, one soldier purportedly said: "The only thing I want right now is to kill myself."

A senior Pentagon official said on Tuesday that parts of the Russian army made up of young, poorly trained conscripts were "ill-prepared" for battle and in some cases had "deliberately punched holes" in their vehicles' fuel tanks to make sure they did not reach the front line.

The defence official declined to reveal the source of the intelligence, but indications of poor Russian morale can be heard in audio recordings of radio messaging between troops obtained by British intelligence company ShadowBreak Intl.

The Telegraph has been unable to independently verify the recordings, but has listened to some of the 24 hours of material obtained by ShadowBreak since the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine six days ago.


Parts of the Russian military are reliant on mobile phones and analogue "walkie-talkies", making them vulnerable to interception by radio enthusiasts.

The intercepted conversations shed light on troops' confusion about engaging targets in civilian areas and voice stress and frustration about the lack of supplies. In one conversation, a soldier sounds as though he is crying.

In the first recording, a soldier seemingly speaking from the command centre says: "We will cover the town… with artillery fire."

There then follows a tense exchange in which his contact on the ground appears to disobey the order and reminds the more senior officer that civilians – or "the goods" – have to be removed from the town before the army can open fire. The man in command sounds annoyed, but accepts that civilians need to leave first.

In another clip, the same man who suggested shelling a town loses his temper asking for what appears to be supplies or fuel. "We've been here for three days! When the hell is it going to be ready?" he exclaims, as Russian expletives fill the airwaves.

In a third audio recording, a soldier who sounds to be in tears pleads with command. "It's slow, it's slow…" are the only words that are audible from the ground. In response, only the command "quickly" can be heard through the static.

Ukrainian forces also had no problem jamming the Russian communications, which are often interrupted by recordings of the Ukrainian national anthem.

Excellent post Dazzer, with some real meat in it.

I've noticed you are no longer posting clips, but describing them. Don't be put off by random people on here trying to shut you down.

I saw the clip you posted - and subsequently deleted - of the hungry Russian soldier being given food and a hot drink by a presumably Ukrainian woman. Someone posted that we can't post clips of POWs as it would be in breach of the Geneva Convention. I agreed with that, until this morning, when I realised that there was no indication the Russian soldier was a POW at all.

There are several other examples of people telling others what they can and cannot post.
Be careful of a cancel culture developing on this thread, by a few self-appointed arbiters.

It's the job of the mods to ultimately decide what is acceptable or not. Nobody else.

 

[essbee1]

But they will be good targets for us to post horrific war photos onto their google reviews - thanks for the idea, I'm off to do some now

Me too. Ta.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I found the constant BBC News alerts, breaking news, etc over the weekend was getting overwhelming. I now limit myself to a catch up in the morning, and at night, and try and avoid the news the rest of the day

I am powerless to help in anyway, and feeling so helpless to do anything about such a horrible, horrible situation was getting to much. My heart breaks for the people of Ukraine .

As an ex military guy I feel I should be able to cope, but I found myself getting more and more anxious and depressed and having skirted with mental health issues before I simply had to step back from the immediacy of it all

In nearly all conflicts I can usually understand what the aggressor hopes to achieve, even if I am totally against that objective, but not this time.

So for my own state of mind I find I have to distance myself from all of this and while keeping appraised of main developments , I am avoiding the videos, the individual tragedies, and the awful suffering.

Does this make me weak and somewhat uncaring? I dont know, I hope not.

Not at all. You say you have suffered from mental health issues, so trust me you are taking the right approach here. What with Covid and now this, it's really not been good for anyone's mental health.