[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Eeyore]

Not forgetting Lord Dubs in the House of Lords was one of these children rescued.

[tweet]1498990930002644996[/tweet]

One of my favourite TV moments ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKkgO06bAZk

 

[vegster]

Excellent post Dazzer, with some real meat in it.

I've noticed you are no longer posting clips, but describing them. Don't be put off by random people on here trying to shut you down.

I saw the clip you posted - and subsequently deleted - of the hungry Russian soldier being given food and a hot drink by a presumably Ukrainian woman. Someone posted that we can't post clips of POWs as it would be in breach of the Geneva Convention. I agreed with that, until this morning, when I realised that there was no indication the Russian soldier was a POW at all.

There are several other examples of people telling others what they can and cannot post.
Be careful of a cancel culture developing on this thread, by a few self-appointed arbiters.

It's the job of the mods to ultimately decide what is acceptable or not. Nobody else.

According to the Russian leadership this is not a war, its a " Military Operation " so ergo, no Prisoners of War !

 

[Eric the meek]

According to the Russian leadership this is not a war, its a " Military Operation " so ergo, no Prisoners of War !

That's a very good point. You can always rely on someone on NSC to ignore the waffle and go straight to the heart of the matter !

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Excellent post Dazzer, with some real meat in it.

I've noticed you are no longer posting clips, but describing them. Don't be put off by random people on here trying to shut you down.

I saw the clip you posted - and subsequently deleted - of the hungry Russian soldier being given food and a hot drink by a presumably Ukrainian woman. Someone posted that we can't post clips of POWs as it would be in breach of the Geneva Convention. I agreed with that, until this morning, when I realised that there was no indication the Russian soldier was a POW at all.

There are several other examples of people telling others what they can and cannot post.
Be careful of a cancel culture developing on this thread, by a few self-appointed arbiters.

It's the job of the mods to ultimately decide what is acceptable or not. Nobody else.

The warning was because of the young man's family. It could be used as propaganda that he had surrendered, and against his family. It was advice not cancel culture.
I have since found out that Facebook & Twitter have been cancelled in Russia to prevent the population finding out what's going on. Ironic really.

 

[Glawstergull]

One of my favourite TV moments ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKkgO06bAZk

i'm sitting in my office with tears in my eyes.

A lesson very relevant today.

 

[vegster]

i'm sitting in my office with tears in my eyes.

A lesson very relevant today.

Yes, seen this a few times over the years, very difficult not to cry when you see this. I don't want to derail the thread but Priti Patel needs tying to a chair and made to watch this on a loop.

 

[dazzer6666]

Excellent post Dazzer, with some real meat in it.

I've noticed you are no longer posting clips, but describing them. Don't be put off by random people on here trying to shut you down.

I saw the clip you posted - and subsequently deleted - of the hungry Russian soldier being given food and a hot drink by a presumably Ukrainian woman. Someone posted that we can't post clips of POWs as it would be in breach of the Geneva Convention. I agreed with that, until this morning, when I realised that there was no indication the Russian soldier was a POW at all.

There are several other examples of people telling others what they can and cannot post.
Be careful of a cancel culture developing on this thread, by a few self-appointed arbiters.

It's the job of the mods to ultimately decide what is acceptable or not. Nobody else.

That's the only tweet/clip I've deleted........TBF there were a lot of other posts on the original tweet referencing the convention and I can't be arsed with arguments so I took the safe and simple option. Agree though - don't think he was a POW, he'd just 'given up' - the Ukraines probably let him have a bath and sent him home with a packed lunch and paid for his train ticket. I've got as much sympathy for coerced and lied-to Russians as I have for impacted Ukraines - there's only one **** in all this really. Anyway, the clip is all over social media if anyone wants to see it (the Telegraph have it on their website now so any breach of the Convention is unlikely I think).

 

[Eric the meek]

The warning was because of the young man's family. It could be used as propaganda that he had surrendered, and against his family. It was advice not cancel culture.
I have since found out that Facebook & Twitter have been cancelled in Russia to prevent the population finding out what's going on. Ironic really.

I disagree. Here is the 'warning' again.

'please do not link pictures or videos you have found of prisoners of war. These videos are in breach of the Geneva Convention.
Not only that, if the prisoner can now be identified in his homeland. Some may argue that 'it's out there already', That's not the point.
If what he says is voluntary, then he is at risk. If what he has said is forced- then that contravenes another part of the convention and its coverage is illegal.'

To recap,

It assumes he is a POW. This is unproven.
It says the video is in breach of the Geneva Convention. This is unproven.
It says he is at risk, or coverage is illegal. Unproven and unproven.

If that's advice, it is based on precisely no evidence whatsoever.

P.S. The same author has previously warned people not to post things......until they have verified them. Not only is that unrealistic, but he is not following
his own advice.

 

[Simster]

I see Twitter is awash with people wanting the government to act on Russian oligarchs just as various EU nations have done. Anyone would think this government was in the pockets of Russian donors. They really are the absolute pits.

 

[Springal]

I see Twitter is awash with people wanting the government to act on Russian oligarchs just as various EU nations have done. Anyone would think this government was in the pockets of Russian donors. They really are the absolute pits.

You see the problem is all the paperwork and having to go through the proper legal process. Strange how the bureaucratic EU members have managed to get this sorted ASAP while we are floundering around in 'paperwork'

 

[Here'sWally]

View attachment 145669

Oops

Doesn't that red part of the map actually represent the region of Moldova called "Transnistria" which is a breakaway territory.

Currently, the Russian Federation holds an unknown number of soldiers in Transnistria, an unrecognized breakaway state internationally recognized as part of Moldova. This Russian military presence dates back to 1992, when the Soviet 14th Guards Army intervened in the Transnistria War on support of the Transnistrian separatist forces. Following the end of the war, which ended in a Russian-backed Transnistrian victory and in the de facto independence of the region, the Russian forces stayed in a purportedly peacekeeping mission and reorganized in 1995 into the Operational Group of Russian Forces (OGRF), part of which is currently guarding the Cobasna ammunition depot. Today, the Government of Moldova views the presence of these Russian troops as illegitimate and has called for their withdrawal and replacement by international forces. Russia however has opposed this.

I'm not arguing for the legitimacy of that breakaway region, only that the image doesn't represent a planned incursion into Moldova, but rather a reinforcing of a position which Russia already holds. I'm not saying that's good either, I'm just saying don't look at that image and assume that it represents Russian troops entering new territory, and it would be very misleading to present that as a plan to "Invade Moldova".

 

[Simster]

You see the problem is all the paperwork and having to go through the proper legal process. Strange how the bureaucratic EU members have managed to get this sorted ASAP while we are floundering around in 'paperwork'

I think you'll find it's called "red tape and bureaucracy" when the EU insist on checks and braces for things like food standards, but good old fashioned harmless "paperwork" when there is an otherwise unnecessary delay to seizing assets of the chums and facilitators of a brutal, callous, murderous madman. This government is not on the side of the people, the Ukraine nation or indeed righteousness, and never has been. They absolutely disgust me.

 

[pb21]

Doesn't that red part of the map actually represent the region of Moldova called "Transnistria" which is a breakaway territory.



I'm not arguing for the legitimacy of that breakaway region, only that the image doesn't represent a planned incursion into Moldova, but rather a reinforcing of a position which Russia already holds. I'm not saying that's good either, I'm just saying don't look at that image and assume that it represents Russian troops entering new territory, and it would be very misleading to present that as a plan to "Invade Moldova".

Interesting, although given Putin's MO he may decide that he needs launch another special mission to remove the nazis from Moldova who are attacking Transnistria.

 

[Eric the meek]

Doesn't that red part of the map actually represent the region of Moldova called "Transnistria" which is a breakaway territory.



I'm not arguing for the legitimacy of that breakaway region, only that the image doesn't represent a planned incursion into Moldova, but rather a reinforcing of a position which Russia already holds. I'm not saying that's good either, I'm just saying don't look at that image and assume that it represents Russian troops entering new territory, and it would be very misleading to present that as a plan to "Invade Moldova".

Correct. Russia have already invaded the part of Moldova that they call Transnistria, so how can they invade it again?

P.S. Why are you being so defensive? (I'm not arguing, I'm not saying etc).

 

[sydney]

I think you'll find it's called "red tape and bureaucracy" when the EU insist on checks and braces for things like food standards, but good old fashioned harmless "paperwork" when there is an otherwise unnecessary delay to seizing assets of the chums and facilitators of a brutal, callous, murderous madman. This government is not on the side of the people, the Ukraine nation or indeed righteousness, and never has been. They absolutely disgust me.

but they will fleece you or me for lesser crimes .....is the penny dropping yet...?? we have biblical floods here , 30k plus homes ruined , insurance has become prohibitive after recent bad weather so the minister for home affairs one Peter " cunthead" Dutton has launched a go fund me page for people to donate , this is despite holding nearly 5 billion dollars in donations for bushfire victims last year .......contemporary politicians are waging a war against the public , they are bleeding us dry .....the *****.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Apologies if fixtures, but Imran Khan isn't exactly playing with a straight bat? Glad handing and meeting up with Putin?

I thought Pakistan as part of the Commonwealth would be on 'our side' in all this?

 

[beorhthelm]

You see the problem is all the paperwork and having to go through the proper legal process. Strange how the bureaucratic EU members have managed to get this sorted ASAP while we are floundering around in 'paperwork'

there are different legal systems though. abroad they may (or may not, we'll see) be able to legally seize anyones property on the say so of a government official, with varying levels of evidence. apparently we dont let our ministers do this. i kinda find it uncomfortable that so many people want this to be possible, because its not the sort of thing we normally accept. too easy to dismiss this as anything else, it could be, or could be just our legal process. its going to be awkward down the road if a bunch of sanctioned persons are sueing for compensation from governments.

 

[Simster]

Apologies if fixtures, but Imran Khan isn't exactly playing with a straight bat? Glad handing and meeting up with Putin?

I thought Pakistan as part of the Commonwealth would be on 'our side' in all this?

Our side? What exactly have we done? A few hollow words, slow to open up our borders, hardly any Russian oligarch assets seized. The only thing we've done is encourage others to ban Russia from Swift, because there is little impact to Conservative interests in doing so.

We are not exactly leading from the front are we?

 

[Dick Swiveller]

Apologies if fixtures, but Imran Khan isn't exactly playing with a straight bat? Glad handing and meeting up with Putin?

I thought Pakistan as part of the Commonwealth would be on 'our side' in all this?

You do realise he is buying oil and gas - the same as we still are?

 

[Simster]

there are different legal systems though. abroad they may (or may not, we'll see) be able to legally seize anyones property on the say so of a government official, with varying levels of evidence. apparently we dont let our ministers do this. i kinda find it uncomfortable that so many people want this to be possible, because its not the sort of thing we normally accept. too easy to dismiss this as anything else, it could be, or could be just our legal process. its going to be awkward down the road if a bunch of sanctioned persons are sueing for compensation from governments.

Yet proroguing parliament was being considered a genuine option in order to force through their wishes without pesky democracy getting in the way. No uncomfortable thoughts there.