[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[SouthSaxon]

I listened to the house of commons chat on the radio on the way home, and I'm really pleased with how Starmer is handling this. Kemi Badenoch is also on side (not playing party politics about how the govt.

Same. He’s been genuinely excellent. I was encouraged with how he handled Trump last Wednesday.

His support for Zelenskyy was note perfect, a display of genuine compassion for someone he clearly respects. My wife really dislikes Starmer but loved how he greeted him - that’s the acid test!

And he’s been proactive and leading by example alongside Macron.

From my point of view, I don’t agree with some of his domestic decisions, but it’s such a relief to have calm and measured government. Personally, I’d take dull, methodical competence any day.

More importantly, I just sense that if he can maintain this, and admittedly there’s a way to go, it will undo a lot of the damage done by the Brexiteers among EU countries.

 

[raymondo]

No need to wait for an expert. Of course wind direction effects drone distance

I was hoping someone would research (I'm worn out,!) the flying heights of various drone types, and typical wind speeds at different altitudes, plus,% impact on drone distance...but I'll take a Yes!

 

[raymondo]

Wasn't there something about US getting 66% of Ukraine's minerals from land Russia occupies? Maybe done a deal with Putin for money.

Yeah, some chat like that. Not sure if it was if Ukraine regained the territory or...

The 'rules' of the deal will probably change tomorrow anyway.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

I mean, without getting too technical, it’s a shit show.

Some conflicts you can see both sides. You can understand disputed territories, historical grudges, long running feuds. It’s a delicate balancing act to maintain peace. Look at India and Pakistan, living peacefully in perpetual mutual loathing.

This situation is entirely one sided. It’s a bigger, stronger nation bullying a smaller one, who wants nothing to do with them or their war. It’s the big fat bully kid who smells of bacon sitting on the book nerd half his size and giving him Chinese burns.

How anyone outside of those in Russia being fed propaganda and disinformation 24/7 can possibly see this as anything but a completely unjust, malicious and illegal war is beyond me.

One poster on here in particular was spouting literal Russian propaganda. I googled some of the phrases they used - many came back from Russian disinformation X accounts. Word for word, or slightly rephrased.

There are bad actors everywhere.

If you aren’t behind Ukraine, you are against freedom and sovereignty. Or worse, you are an intentional bad actor - be that for laughs, money or worse in a way, ideology.

Who are these people? Are they the same people who are anti woke, anti vax, climate change deniers etc? Coming over as a bunch of nihilists.

 

[jcdenton08]

Who are these people? Are they the same people who are anti woke, anti vax, climate change deniers etc? Coming over as a bunch of nihilists.

They are the handful of people who have quite literally parroted Russian disinformation, as recently as a few pages back, and on other threads.

This isn’t an issue needing nuance and perspective; this is a Rebel Alliance vs Galactic Empire situation. Or Allies vs Axis. One side is clearly on the wrong side of morality and will be on the wrong side of history, win, lose or stalemate.

 

[Fungus]

If you want a bit of light relief, watch Elementary (the wonderful Sherlock Holmes helping the NYPD), season 4 episode 9 - “Murder ex Machina”. From 2016, it’s set against the background of the Russia-Ukraine war of the time, with lots about covert peace discussions, and who gains or loses from continuing war or achieving peace. Also features a tech bro that’s involved with driverless cars and plans to colonise Mars and the Moon. It felt incredibly contemporary, despite being nine years old. Also very funny. And I’m sure that was Vance in the strip club. 🫣

 

[Nobby]

Then explain what the alternative is without the allegories and the aggression cheers.

What are the terms of that need to be in place for a ceasefire

Well to start with Putin dead? And they stop killing civilians
And promise to be really nice in future

 

[Eric the meek]

The art of the deal. Humiliate, insult and bully your opponent in public. Kick him out of the Oval Office. Then return with a new deal.

 

[FamilyGuy]

The art of the deal. Humiliate, insult and bully your opponent in public. Kick him out of the Oval Office. Then return with a new deal.

I remain unconvinced that Trump has ever made a good/lasting/quality/viable "deal" in his entire life - he just says that he has and so people believe him.

Can we have the W*NKER emoji back please? <asking for a friend>

 

[raymondo]

The art of the deal. Humiliate, insult and bully your opponent in public. Kick him out of the Oval Office. Then return with a new deal.

Blimey, he soooo wants those minerals - he doesn't give a shit about Ukraine.
I guess Dump heard that Europe started work on it's own peace deal that it wants to present (jointly with Ukraine) to the Trump administration. So he gets his skates on to try to nullify the European proposal .

 

[Eric the meek]

This is an oil depot in Russia's Rostov region. It won't surprise you to find that it's on fire.

 

[raymondo]

Here's another analysis, with Michael McFaul, former US Ambassador to Moscow. He maintains that the US has no chance of prising Russia away from it's close relationship with China.

 

[raymondo]

This is an oil depot in Russia's Rostov region. It won't surprise you to find that it's on fire.

At some point there won't be any major oil depot/refinery left un-hit.

 

[Bodian]

Peter Mandelson in the Guardian:

Mandelson said there was a need for a “very radical reset” after Trump and his vice-president, JD Vance, berated Zelenskyy in the Oval Office on Friday.

“The reset has to consist of the United States and Ukraine getting back on the same page, President Zelenskyy giving his unequivocal backing to the initiative that President Trump is taking to end the war and to bring a just and lasting peace to Ukraine,” Mandelson said.

“And the Europeans too, they need to back the calls for a ceasefire, and – by the way – I think that Ukraine should be the first to commit to a ceasefire and defy the Russians to follow.”


A Labour spokesperson said this is NOT the Government’s position….. whyever not?

Probably because if Ukraine commits to a ceasefire, and Russia doesn't - then Russia can just blast through the rest of Ukraine without opposition and take what it wants.

 

[SouthSaxon]

The art of the deal. Humiliate, insult and bully your opponent in public. Kick him out of the Oval Office. Then return with a new deal.

And so it goes on. I’m going out on a limb to suggest it’ll be the deal before last again.

“Sign the deal or we’re out, for realsies”

 

[Eric the meek]

At some point there won't be any major oil depot/refinery left un-hit.

I guess that's the plan. Death by a thousand cuts. Putin watching his economy burn down slowly.

He must be regretting targeting Ukraine's energy infrastructure. It would have given the Ukrainians the idea of doing the same to Russia, but with more success. Remotely, from afar, with low risk to the drone operator, and an ever-increasing chance of success.

Remember, Russia will always try to put a brave face on things. The reality is likely to be far worse than they make out.