[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[peterward]

I'm not familiar with the area or history, but could China not back Russia 'reclaiming' Ukraine on the basis its akin (might have to bend the truth a bit?) to China 'reclaiming' Taiwan.

Well in Putins rambling monologue last night, he made loads of wild and false claims, that Ukraine isnt a country, it was created by Lenin, it was part of Russia, its all false and not historical fact.

Kyivan Rus maybe the birthplace of the Russian Orthodoxy, but when Kyiv was already a shining city, Moscow was just a mere village by comparison. And whilst Ukraine has nearly always been invaded or occupied by larger imperial others except for a brief period just after WW1 they always have fought to establish their independence. It was never "Russian" lands. Russian suppressed or imperially stolen for sure.

And when you break down Putins arguments, if China were to agree to his perverse logic, then this is what Putin is effectively saying.

That Crimea, ethincally Turkic for centuries before Russia occupied, then Ukrainan as part of the Ukrainian SSR and independent Ukraine, should be taken by force, ethnic tartars killed and removed, Ukrainians imprisoned or removed to settle a historical mistake.

Moldova a soverign nation, breakaway region with Moscow puppets, held by force is legitmate

Georgia, a soverign nation, stolen/annexed region controlled by Moscow puppets and held by force is also legitimate.

Ukraine a sovereign nation who have fought for years against foreign invaders, UN recognised as a Sovereign nation, are in fact not a real country or state. A country that were never an actual part of Russia, actually belongs to Russia,

However, a rabble of farmers, kids party clowns and other dropouts aka DNR/LNR controlled by the Russian military and a Moscow puppet. in part of a country that was and is an actual UN recognised part of Ukraine, isn't actually Ukraine but shold be independent and also belongs to Russia?

 

[NooBHA]

Well in Putins rambling monologue last night, he made loads of wild and false claims, that Ukraine isnt a country, it was created by Lenin, it was part of Russia, its all false and not historical fact.

Kyivan Rus maybe the birthplace of the Russian Orthodoxy, but when Kyiv was already a shining city, Moscow was just a mere village by comparison. And whilst Ukraine has nearly always been invaded or occupied by larger imperial others except for a brief period just after WW1 they always have fought to establish their independence. It was never "Russian" lands. Russian suppressed or imperially stolen for sure.

And when you break down Putins arguments, if China were to agree to his perverse logic, then this is what Putin is effectively saying.

That Crimea, ethincally Turkic for centuries before Russia occupied, then Ukrainan as part of the Ukrainian SSR and independent Ukraine, should be taken by force, ethnic tartars killed and removed, Ukrainians imprisoned or removed to settle a historical mistake.

Moldova a soverign nation, breakaway region with Moscow puppets, held by force is legitmate

Georgia, a soverign nation, stolen/annexed region controlled by Moscow puppets and held by force is also legitimate.

Ukraine a sovereign nation who have fought for years against foreign invaders, UN recognised as a Sovereign nation, are in fact not a real country or state. A coutry that were never an actual part of Russia, actually belongs to Russia,

However, a rabble of farmers, kids party clowns and other dropouts aka DNR/LNR controlled by the Russian military and a Moscow puppet. A coutnry that was and an actual UN recognised part of Ukraine, isn't actually Ukraine but also belongs to Russia?

That's really interesting - I didn't know half of that, especially the part about Moldova. Would you mind if I plagiarised it next time I am having an argument in the pub ?

 

[pb21]

Just the start I presume...

[tweet]1496078379426136064[/tweet]

 

[giveusfalmerplease]

Will everyone PLEASE stop saying Russia this, Russia that..It's a VERY small set of very powerful individuals in charge of a very subservient majority . I heard a while ago over 90% of Russian people don't have a passport and have never been outside Russia. They are either scared of repercussions or indoctrinated to believe life outside Russia is worse. They do not want war,they do not have ambition to dominate the world order they just do their best to live life within their own limited freedom and do all that they can to avoid anything which might antagonise the elite

 

[essbee1]

Will everyone PLEASE stop saying Russia this, Russia that..It's a VERY small set of very powerful individuals in charge of a very subservient majority . I heard a while ago over 90% of Russian people don't have a passport and have never been outside Russia. They are either scared of repercussions or indoctrinated to believe life outside Russia is worse. They do not want war,they do not have ambition to dominate the world order they just do their best to live life within their own limited freedom and do all that they can to avoid anything which might antagonise the elite

I think most fair-minded and sensible people know that. But it's easier to say and write "Russia" than "a very small set of very powerful individuals in charge of a very subservient majority".

 

[Skuller]

Will everyone PLEASE stop saying Russia this, Russia that..It's a VERY small set of very powerful individuals in charge of a very subservient majority . I heard a while ago over 90% of Russian people don't have a passport and have never been outside Russia. They are either scared of repercussions or indoctrinated to believe life outside Russia is worse. They do not want war,they do not have ambition to dominate the world order they just do their best to live life within their own limited freedom and do all that they can to avoid anything which might antagonise the elite

For what it’s worth, 20 years ago only 10% of Americans had passports. It’s now 40% partly because you now need one for US citizens to go into Canada and Mexico (Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42586638). Just because you don’t travel doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t have a world view. Of greater pertinence is the access to balanced news channels (which you cover).

 

[Mackenzie]

Will everyone PLEASE stop saying Russia this, Russia that..It's a VERY small set of very powerful individuals in charge of a very subservient majority . I heard a while ago over 90% of Russian people don't have a passport and have never been outside Russia. They are either scared of repercussions or indoctrinated to believe life outside Russia is worse. They do not want war,they do not have ambition to dominate the world order they just do their best to live life within their own limited freedom and do all that they can to avoid anything which might antagonise the elite

Yep I too have watched Bald and Bankrupt (although I guess he’s only bald now) and those Russians (Soviets) are a great bunch of lads.

 

[peterward]

That's really interesting - I didn't know half of that, especially the part about Moldova. Would you mind if I plagiarised it next time I am having an argument in the pub ?

Whatever you want fella, the part of Moldova is Transnistria, its a thin slither that borders sounth westen Ukraine. No doubt Putin will launch from there to try and rigth historical wrongs and steal Odessa., Its always been officially recognised by the UN as part of Moldova, In Georgia there are actually 2 regions, both under Moscow Puppets. Both taken by force after Russia invaded in 2008. South Ossetia and Abkhazia

 

[Insel affe]

I think most fair-minded and sensible people know that. But it's easier to say and write "Russia" than "a very small set of very powerful individuals in charge of a very subservient majority".

This, He is a Russian and they are Russian troops in the name of Russia.
We know there are probably a majority of folk in Russia who want nothing to do with this, but the fact is it is being done in the name of Russia, and what else do you want us to call them.
It is similar to when English hooligans go on the rampage throughout Europe, there is wide spread condemnation and we all purport to be ashamed to be English. I was ashamed when Blair dragged into a war the middle east, I was still English/British and ashamed, and I am still a proud Englishman.

Russian/ Russia is just a word.

 

[MJsGhost]

Whatever you want fella, the part of Moldova is Transnistria, its a thin slither that borders sounth westen Ukraine. No doubt Putin will launch from there to try and rigth historical wrongs and steal Odessa., Its always been officially recognised by the UN as part of Moldova, In Georgia there are actually 2 regions, both under Moscow Puppets. Both taken by force after Russia invaded in 2008. South Ossetia and Abkhazia

The only reason I've heard of Transnistria is Sheriff Tiraspol beating Real Madrid in the Champions League this year. The politics of the region seem interesting* and something I know very little about.



*Absolutely fvcked up, to put it mildly

 

[Eric the meek]

Just the start I presume...

[tweet]1496078379426136064[/tweet]

Well done to the Germans and Olaf Scholz. A man of principle.

That wouldn't have been a straightforward decision to make.

I hope all his NATO allies follow his lead. We shall soon see whether they do.

 

[beorhthelm]

Just the start I presume...

i'll me more impressed when they sanction/close Nord Stream 1. not opening the as yet unused pipeline is no material impact to anyone.

 

[Eric the meek]

i'll me more impressed when they sanction/close Nord Stream 1. not opening the as yet unused pipeline is no material impact to anyone.

Of course it is.

It is a statement of intent, is likely to cause a domino effect among NATO allies, and punches a hole in budgeted future income for the Russians.

The Meox Russian share index is down 21% in 6 days.

Russian aggression impacts Russian trade and costs Russians money. Good.

 

[pb21]

i'll me more impressed when they sanction/close Nord Stream 1. not opening the as yet unused pipeline is no material impact to anyone.

Yes fair point, although I do think it is an important step.

Plus not opening NS2 means that Europe will remain reliant on the existing gas pipelines that pass through Ukraine from Russia, there must be ramifications of this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I blame Shane Duffy.

 

[Hamilton]

Yes fair point, although I do think it is an important step.

Plus not opening NS2 means that Europe will remain reliant on the existing gas pipelines that pass through Ukraine from Russia, there must be ramifications of this.

Ramifications will be that Putin definitely invades.


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[vegster]

Will Johnson have the balls to enact the sanctions required or will Russian Kompromat limit him to slapped wrist time ?

 

[BBassic]

I blame Shane Duffy.

#TeamBob

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

#TeamBob

I expect he’ll come off his line and save the world any moment now. Obviously he’ll shout to Biden, Macron, Putin, Schultz….KEEPERS!

 

[peterward]

Well done to the Germans and Olaf Scholz. A man of principle.

That wouldn't have been a straightforward decision to make.

I hope all his NATO allies follow his lead. We shall soon see whether they do.

Reading the EU wants to sanction all 351 members of the Russian Duma, but Putins EU stooge, far right Orban from Hungary is resisting.

Its at moments like this that EU proves it doesnt work well in its current form. You cant have 1 nation stopping 26 from what is a 96% unified approach