[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Springal]

Is their a clip anywhere?

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[Dr Bandler]

Similar to here, most have been brainwashed with propaganda about the evils of the opposing side and most will not be particularly interested in what the lying media from the other side has to say about things. Just like most here wont read RT or similar.

Many of those who are generally critical of their government will in a sharp situation drop all their thought, go emotional and "support" "their" empire. Just like here.

I think you are right, Swansman. How easy it is to whip people up to division and righteous anger. Now we some users on this board emotionally ranting that all Russians are bad and horrible. That from our wonderfully non-racist, reasonable NSC members.

 

[peterward]

Totally agree.

On every level, Russia are utter filth. They lie, obfuscate, muddy waters, deny everything, but basically do whatever the f*ck they want.

Their government are lying scum. Their sporting authorities are lying scum. And (in my experience both in Egypt and Tunisia), many of their tourists are arrogant, entitled filth. Mexico is a blessed relief from these people, which is why its a big reason for being my No1 holiday destination.

I absolutely despise Russia.

There are some decent people, but the ones you describe are a common sub section like our own chavs are.

My Mrs has a close friend in Moscow, very wealthy, her husband's dad works in some type of administrative role in the Kremlin. When they spoke last and she enquired how your family are in Ukraine, my Mrs just couldnt contain herself and said "we were fine until your murderous leader started to kill our people", her friend said "look we know, we just can't talk about it, but we hear you and are here if you ever need help". That was quite encouraging tbh but they're well read and intellectual, it's the f***wit zombies that lap up his bullshit on state controlled TV that are more concerning.

Manners and etiquette from tourists, I fully concur, can't stand Russian tourists.

1) went to Bulgaria skiing in 2012, had half board in hotel that also had russians in it..... Buffet type dinner arrangement and one night, I shit you not, on the desert table there was a large (massive) silver platter plate with profiteroles on it, must have been 100+ on the plate...... You know, for people to take 4 or 5 each..... This thuggish looking 40's looking Russian fella, took the whole plate to his family table. When the hotel fella said something he became aggressive and the hotel worker backed off...... Just couldn't believe the audacity, lack of respect or downright selfishness.

2) I flew to Thailand with my better half from Donetsk in 2013, in aeroflot via Moscow. On the flight back, seating was 3-4-3. Mrs and I were in the aisle and next seat of the middle 4 seats. We got on, and overhead bins above our middle seats were full, but next to us on the window 3 side the whole bin was empty as we're seats. Put 1 small suitcase in that took about 1/4-1/3 of bin space at the end and sat down. Few mins later, skinheaded 50 year old, ex military nutter looking fella and covered in tats gets in with Mrs and kid, whose sitting in those 3 seats, and without saying a word, pulls our small suitcase, throws it's backwards down the aisle into the floor and fills the bin with all his stuff and sits down..... My Mrs started getting all heated and shouting with him, then his bitch starts piping up...... I'm assessing that an Englishman in a plane full of Russians my options aren't great! So tell the wife to calm down and don't sink to their level.... But this individual was vile scum indeed, no decorum, no manners not the slightest shit about anyone except himself.

 

[Dr Bandler]

Totally agree.

On every level, Russia are utter filth. They lie, obfuscate, muddy waters, deny everything, but basically do whatever the f*ck they want.

Their government are lying scum. Their sporting authorities are lying scum. And (in my experience both in Egypt and Tunisia), many of their tourists are arrogant, entitled filth. Mexico is a blessed relief from these people, which is why its a big reason for being my No1 holiday destination.

I absolutely despise Russia.

Can you please get a grip? My wife was originally from Russia, and her and her family are lovely, warm welcoming people, as are many Russians I have met there. We also have friends in Ukraine who currently fear for their business and their lives. Yes, their tourists can be unpleasant, but how about ours? Both as bad as each other in popular, boozy resorts.

Do not let the awful geo-political realities of the world at present allow you to condemn a whole people. Isn't that the very definition of racism, which so many on here rightly fight against. Do not let political realities and leaders make you judge a whole people. Imagine if we were all judged on our dear prime minister?

 

[portslade seagull]

Our gas dependency to Russia is only aroubnd 10%. But everything has a knock-on.

Germany's reliance is around 80%, so if Putin turns off the taps in reaction to tit-for-tat NATO-enforced sanctions, then who knows where that goes.

Problem is the German and French appeasement front doesn't help much when we need a united West. Putin sees this as weakness which has just resulted in troops entering the two separatists states

 

[A1X]

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Nicked from the replies

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Can you please get a grip? My wife was originally from Russia, and her and her family are lovely, warm welcoming people, as are many Russians I have met there. We also have friends in Ukraine who currently fear for their business and their lives. Yes, their tourists can be unpleasant, but how about ours? Both as bad as each other in popular, boozy resorts.

Do not let the awful geo-political realities of the world at present allow you to condemn a whole people. Isn't that the very definition of racism, which so many on here rightly fight against. Do not let political realities and leaders make you judge a whole people. Imagine if we were all judged on our dear prime minister?

I agree with you, the fella went too far insulting the entire people of a nation. There is something toxic running through the authorities of the nation though and it's right to call that out. I also think it's fair to bring in the conversation about doping 15 year olds, and (just about everyone) into the political conversation, as it's exactly the same themes, contempt for everyone else, and barely disguised duplicity.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Problem is the German and French appeasement front doesn't help much when we need a united West. Putin sees this as weakness which has just resulted in troops entering the two separatists states

Is this helpful language? Have these countries tried to avoid war any more or less than we have?

 

[peterward]

I think you are right, Swansman. How easy it is to whip people up to division and righteous anger. Now we some users on this board emotionally ranting that all Russians are bad and horrible. That from our wonderfully non-racist, reasonable NSC members.

Not at all Putin is not Russia, he is in fact a traitor who steals from his people. A liar and deciever who kills his own people to blame on others

The Kremlin is not Russia,. but those who have usurped power.

Russia is a beautiful country, rich in culture,rich in the arts and with many amazing people

I think most don't generalise into one size fits all as you allude.

Putin and the Kremlin are not Russia or Russians

 

[jakarta]

Putin and the Kremlin are not Russia or Russians

However they are running the show and the people we have to deal with?

 

[Swansman]

Same here. Their general mindset in my experience is totally at odds with ours. These are people who will say good morning when it’s evening and still maintain they’re right.

I dont mind Russians but no need to heap praise on them.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Not at all Putin is not Russia, he is in fact a traitor who steals from his people. A liar and deciever who kills his own people to blame on others

The Kremlin is not Russia,. but those who have usurped power.

Russia is a beautiful country, rich in culture,rich in the arts and with many amazing people

I think most don't generalise into one size fits all as you allude.

Putin and the Kremlin are not Russia or Russians

I agree with your sentiments, but there is some responsibility on the people of Russia. Part of Putin's calculation here is that it will make him more popular and he's probably right. Even if widespread street protest is highly unadvisable in Russia, surely they should be making their discontent known more that is currently happening.

 

[peterward]

However they are running the show and the people we have to deal with?

Yes of course. Everyday Russian citizens will have to live with the consequences of Putin's malign actions and their sons will be coming home dead too if he invades.

I feel sorry for Russians that they are stuck under this murderous thug, who robs the nation's resources with his entourage and stifles their nations full abilities.

It's even more extreme than us being stuck with Boris forever but as a police state, being imprisoned for supporting labour, being murdered for being an activist and only GB news and the Telegraph allowed.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

My relatives are on the 16:30 ( 14:30 UK time ) flight out of Lviv.

I had to practically beg them to take it as they were quite happy to wait until tomorrow or beyond.

If the airspace shuts they will be charging to the Polish border ( hopefully before the Russian Air Assault troops coincidentally stationed at the very western tip of the Belarus force take the land border crossings with Poland - my tactical guess ).

 

[atomised]

Yes of course. Everyday Russian citizens will have to live with the consequences of Putin's malign actions and their sons will be coming home dead too if he invades.

I feel sorry for Russians that they are stuck under this murderous thug, who robs the nation's resources with his entourage and stifles their nations full abilities.

It's even more extreme than us being stuck with Boris forever but as a police state, being imprisoned for supporting labour, being murdered for being an activist and only GB news and the Telegraph allowed.

Spoke to a Russian friend this morning who is devastated at what is currently going on. It seriously impacts her life as it will that of many ordinary russians she frequently visits the UK often spending a months wages for a week's trip. She's said this morning the exchange rate shot up overnight to make that impossible for now

 

[Dr Bandler]

Not at all Putin is not Russia, he is in fact a traitor who steals from his people. A liar and deciever who kills his own people to blame on others

The Kremlin is not Russia,. but those who have usurped power.

Russia is a beautiful country, rich in culture,rich in the arts and with many amazing people

I think most don't generalise into one size fits all as you allude.

Putin and the Kremlin are not Russia or Russians

This is correct. I kind of agree with a Russian guy who works for me - Putin being the leader is just a symptom of the underlying, corrupt system - one where the wealth of the nation and people has been stolen by the oligarchs. If it wasn't Putin it would be someone else to protect the oligarch's interest. None of whom give a shit about the ordinary people.

Interesting that we allow Abramovich to happily own on of our major football clubs. For those who don't know how he came by his wealth it is worth reading up on the junk bond scheme he and that New Zealand fella from Renaissance Capital pulled to get hold of the country's oil and gas wealth. They both still swan around with impunity.

 

[A1X]

Even if widespread street protest is highly unadvisable in Russia, surely they should be making their discontent known more that is currently happening.

And who's going to be the first, exactly? Given it's highly likely the first people who dare to speak up will quietly disappear (and so might well their families) who will do so? Who among us would be brave enough if we were in their position? I'm damned sure I wouldn't be.

 

[peterward]

My relatives are on the 16:30 ( 14:30 UK time ) flight out of Lviv.

I had to practically beg them to take it as they were quite happy to wait until tomorrow or beyond.

If the airspace shuts they will be charging to the Polish border ( hopefully before the Russian Air Assault troops coincidentally stationed at the very western tip of the Belarus force take the land border crossings with Poland - my tactical guess ).

Wow I never realised you too had relatives BV. Wishing them all a safe trip today. And I think they too will be fine today, expect Putin to first do more fake provocations for Russian TV before invasion.

 

[raymondo]

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Anyone expecting serious sanctions from the west is deluding themselves. Oh sure, they talk a good game, and most nations have passed the Magnitsky Act or derivations thereof, but let's face facts. Much of Europe is dependent on Russia for mineral resources and energy. The UK Governing party is awash with Russian money (to the extent the US administration fears our response will be tempered as a result) and the US is not going to risk nuclear armageddon over a small patch of eastern Ukraine most of their population couldn't place on a map even if it had a massive arrow pointing at it.

I think you are right

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Wow I never realised you too had relatives BV. Wishing them all a safe trip today. And I think they too will be fine today, expect Putin to first do more fake provocations for Russian TV before invasion.

I couldn't mention it until they had a plan to get out as it was too much to handle.


I thought Putin would attack from the North last night as well - very relieved he didn't.

The US emergency evacuation of their relocated embassy staff from Lviv to Poland in the middle of last night wasn't a great moment for me.