[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

Wow and wow. 5% of GDP?...

Here's the FT article.

Trump wants 5% Nato defence spending target, Europe told

US president-elect’s closest foreign policy aides indicate he will continue arming Ukraine while pursuing end to war

www.ft.com

 

[Eric the meek]

Currently just over 3% in the USA - so that means they'll have to increase their own spending quite substantially. I wonder if he's thought this through?

I would have said God knows, but even that is doubtful.

 

[Sirnormangall]

I'm guessing that a day after his annual 4 hour question and answer marathon, in which he painted a picture that all on the economy was fine, and blamed the official 9% inflation rate on Russian eating habits, that if the central bank had raised rates again to 23% or higher, it would have looked a bit odd.

Are you suggesting their central bank isn’t independent of the Kremlin?! Keeping interest rates at 21% isn’t something to be proud of, though I’m tempted to enquire whether I can buy their equivalent of a fixed rate ISA.

 

[Bodian]

He probably means he wants NATO countries to increase to 5%, and US aid “to continue” at the same rate. He’d justify this by saying how huge America’s aid is because of the size of their nation and economy compared to, say, Luxembourg’s contribution when it comes to dollar amounts spent on this.

But the USA is a 'NATO country' - so surely they'd all be bound by the same agreement?

 

[jcdenton08]

But the USA is a 'NATO country' - so surely they'd all be bound by the same agreement?

This is Trump we’re talking about, a “businessman who does business”. He’ll see it as bargaining for America’s ongoing involvement.

 

[A1X]

Massively increasing defence spending overnight will be basically impossible for most countries, this sounds an awful lot like Trump moving the goalposts time to get out of his NATO commitments

 

[jcdenton08]

Massively increasing defence spending overnight will be basically impossible for most countries, this sounds an awful lot like Trump moving the goalposts time to get out of his NATO commitments

This is what I was getting at basically, yeah.

 

[jcdenton08]

Are you suggesting their central bank isn’t independent of the Kremlin?! Keeping interest rates at 21% isn’t something to be proud of, though I’m tempted to enquire whether I can buy their equivalent of a fixed rate ISA.

“Planned economy” lives long in Russia.

 

[Eric the meek]

Today we are a month away from Trump assuming office, with the peace talks hopefully taking place soon afterwards. But the war would seem to be intensifying.

After Russia's deadly attacks on Kyiv last night, Russia claims six were killed by a Ukrainian strike in Kursk.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crmnxznlmpko

 

[Eric the meek]

 

[driddles]

Massively increasing defence spending overnight will be basically impossible for most countries, this sounds an awful lot like Trump moving the goalposts time to get out of his NATO commitments

As a Canadian who has heard this type of challenge directed at Canada by trump before several times let me tell you that's not it. He's tired of people depending on the expensive US military to defend them and then not doing their part to build their own military. This is one thing he has stayed consistent on during his entire time in and out of office.

 

[raymondo]

As a Canadian who has heard this type of challenge directed at Canada by trump before several times let me tell you that's not it. He's tired of people depending on the expensive US military to defend them and then not doing their part to build their own military. This is one thing he has stayed consistent on during his entire time in and out of office.

I think Trump's right that Europe should build it's own military to a higher level.
IIRC the previous agreed level was 3% (and I know a number of European countries hadn't reached that). Personally, I think Trump is setting the 5% target as a hard stretch, knowing that most countries won't make it, or rather will choose not to (US included?) - but if it makes countries at least get above 3% then that's a win.

 

[A1X]

As a Canadian who has heard this type of challenge directed at Canada by trump before several times let me tell you that's not it. He's tired of people depending on the expensive US military to defend them and then not doing their part to build their own military. This is one thing he has stayed consistent on during his entire time in and out of office.

Yes I know, but demanding countries more than double their defence spending to stay under US protection is not possible for any nation which has anything vaguely resembling a welfare state. This feels like an ideological attack from Putin’s new White House pet.

 

[raymondo]

 

[fly high]

I just want to blast his smug face with a shotgun. He will never stop unless he's forced to.

 

[Triggaaar]

Wow and wow. 5% of GDP?...

I'm not sure countries will be ok with spending 5%, and it's not up to the US to decide what the other 30+ countries do. Although increased spending for a few year may be a good thing.

 

[Triggaaar]

He probably means he wants NATO countries to increase to 5%, and US aid “to continue” at the same rate. He’d justify this by saying how huge America’s aid is because of the size of their nation and economy compared to, say, Luxembourg’s contribution when it comes to dollar amounts spent on this.

How 'bout no you crazy orange bastard

 

[Eric the meek]

Does anyone know what it might cost us to get to 5% GDP as contributions in to Nato?

What it might mean in terms of income tax?

I for one, would be prepared for all working people to pay extra income tax to pay for it.

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes I know, but demanding countries more than double their defence spending to stay under US protection is not possible for any nation which has anything vaguely resembling a welfare state. This feels like an ideological attack from Putin’s new White House pet.

I don't think Putin would want his pet to try and increase NATO spending.

If Trump just wants to leave NATO, then he'll just say so. He can't justify it by suddenly saying 'I want you all to double your spending by Monday and if you don't we're leaving'. Obviously he doesn't need to justify it at all, in which case just leave, rather than fanny about with silly demands.

If he asks for countries to move towards 5%, they can agree to that over a period of time, knowing that Trump will be gone in 4 years anyway, and in 4 years the risk from Russia could well have evaporated (certainly if we back Ukraine as we should).

 

[Eric the meek]

Did you know that Putin is a good man, a kind man? That he can't be truly happy until all his soldiers return from the front to their mothers and wives?

If you can stomach it, watch this tearful praise of Putin's conference. It is full of messages the Kremlin wants the Russian people to hear.