[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Happy Exile]

Full disclosure - I believe Putin uses doubles.

So how hard can it be to verify Putin uses doubles? Well, jolly hard actually. I'm not talking about putting forward evidence, or claiming it's a fact. I'm talking about actually proving it. Beyond any and all doubt.

Facial recognition software might be the way to go. But that can be open to all kinds of challenges to its validity. How do you know it works? How do you know it works 100% of the time? Do you test and measure its performance against other people with doppelgangers, all with different ears?

Then there's DNA sampling from Putin at various events. I'm guessing that there might be problems with this approach. If Putin got wind of it, he could pick and choose his events, and simply not use his doubles and quietly 'retire' them. Even if you could get near enough Putin to take a quick sample of blood, that might be a career-ending move for a DNA scientist.

The BBC Verify team face their stiffest challenge.

Just as an aside really, I read a few years ago about how world leaders avoid their DNA being taken and potentially used by foreign powers to identify health issues and vulnerabilities etc. The incredible lengths some will go to to ensure either they only use their own things when visiting other nations or have staff on hand to monitor the removal and destruction / sterilisation of everything they touch like bedsheets. Some will essentially poo in a bag and have it taken home rather than flushed too so nothing can be analysed. Avoiding DNA retrieval or any kind of exposure about their health or wellbeing is something they take very seriously.

 

[Mellotron]

It's a fact that he has doubles. On an event by event basis, he might not always have one, so they could call out the wrong occasion, but they wouldn't be wrong to say he has doubles.

I absolutely believe he has, but how can it empirically be proven as a fact?

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

I always thought that India and China hated each other.

On June 15, 2020, over 600 soldiers clashed in Galwan Valley. While the soldiers had rifles, they did not use them. Reportedly, the Chinese brought machetes, clubs embedded with nails, and batons wrapped with barbed wire. The violence involved a mix of purpose-built and improvised weapons including iron rods, collapsible batons, stones, and others.

Both sides suffered numerous dead, some due to injuries, but most due to falling over the mountainous regions and into a nearby river.

 

[Gabbiano]

Neither China nor India have “allied” with Russia. Both are staying doggedly (outwardly) neutral in order to maintain trade with the west whilst also getting cheap oil and resources from an economically weak Russia.

And India is far too important and influential for us to start making grand symbolic (although meaningless) gestures like kicking them out of the Commonwealth. It would achieve a grand total of bugger all except pissing off a strategic long term trade partner. Unfortunately global geopolitics is all about pragmatism.

 

[raymondo]

A wordy but very useful opinion of Ukraine's progress

 

[sparkie]

On the subject of Putin doubles, I think it's very possible that any Putin that ends up the Hague will just be "a Putin", and not "the Putin".

 

[chickens]

I always thought that India and China hated each other.

On June 15, 2020, over 600 soldiers clashed in Galwan Valley. While the soldiers had rifles, they did not use them. Reportedly, the Chinese brought machetes, clubs embedded with nails, and batons wrapped with barbed wire. The violence involved a mix of purpose-built and improvised weapons including iron rods, collapsible batons, stones, and others.

Both sides suffered numerous dead, some due to injuries, but most due to falling over the mountainous regions and into a nearby river.

Yup, there’s no love lost. India perceives China as a threat. Each nation will do what’s seen as right for itself economically, but that doesn’t mean that they’re pro the Ukraine conflict.

 

[fly high]

Just as an aside really, I read a few years ago about how world leaders avoid their DNA being taken and potentially used by foreign powers to identify health issues and vulnerabilities etc. The incredible lengths some will go to to ensure either they only use their own things when visiting other nations or have staff on hand to monitor the removal and destruction / sterilisation of everything they touch like bedsheets. Some will essentially poo in a bag and have it taken home rather than flushed too so nothing can be analysed. Avoiding DNA retrieval or any kind of exposure about their health or wellbeing is something they take very seriously.

Which is why Macron refused to take a covid test when he visited Russia and ended up sitting 15 ft away at the end of a table

 

[Triggaaar]

I absolutely believe he has, but how can it empirically be proven as a fact?

I didn't actually realise it was supposed to be a secret?

 

[Eric the meek]

'War won't be over until Crimea is back in Ukrainian hands, Zelenskyy says'

Russia-Ukraine war: 'Putin's henchmen' threatening UK, Britons warned; Moscow's troops reach key Ukrainian city

Russian troops have reached the Ukrainian city of Toretsk, an anchor of Kyiv's defences in the eastern Donetsk region. Its capture could bring closer the prospect of Moscow securing the entire Donbas. Meanwhile, the MI5 boss has warned Russia wants to create "mayhem" on UK streets.

news.sky.com

Missing from Zelenskyy's statement is any mention of Donbas. This may be just an inadvertent omission, but - I think - he made the same omission a few days ago.

We may be seeing the first signs of some kind of armistice.
I'm reminded of the interview with Sean Bell a few days ago. Watch it from 4:30 onwards. He puts forward the idea of drawing a line on the map to end the war.

 

[Triggaaar]

'War won't be over until Crimea is back in Ukrainian hands, Zelenskyy says'

Russia-Ukraine war: 'Putin's henchmen' threatening UK, Britons warned; Moscow's troops reach key Ukrainian city

Russian troops have reached the Ukrainian city of Toretsk, an anchor of Kyiv's defences in the eastern Donetsk region. Its capture could bring closer the prospect of Moscow securing the entire Donbas. Meanwhile, the MI5 boss has warned Russia wants to create "mayhem" on UK streets.

news.sky.com

Missing from Zelenskyy's statement is any mention of Donbas. This may be just an inadvertent omission, but - I think - he made the same omission a few days ago.

Isn't he just saying Crimea as meaning 'the whole lot, including Crimea which was annexed 9 years ago', rather than missing anything out?

We may be seeing the first signs of some kind of armistice.
I'm reminded of the interview with Sean Bell a few days ago. Watch it from 4:30 onwards. He puts forward the idea of drawing a line on the map to end the war.

Where is he getting his information from that the West are suddenly going to stop supplying weapons? I see no indication of that. And where does he get the idea that Ukraine will want to stop fighting?

 

[raymondo]

On the subject of Putin doubles, I think it's very possible that any Putin that ends up the Hague will just be "a Putin", and not "the Putin".

If he doodles Sponge Bob on the table...then he's a double.

 

[Eric the meek]

Isn't he just saying Crimea as meaning 'the whole lot, including Crimea which was annexed 9 years ago', rather than missing anything out?





Where is he getting his information from that the West are suddenly going to stop supplying weapons? I see no indication of that. And where does he get the idea that Ukraine will want to stop fighting?

He might be saying Crimea as meaning the whole lot. It was noticeable that the Donbas wasn't included though.

I don't know where he gets the information from. Perhaps he is speculating. I'm not sure he gets - or communicates - the idea that Ukraine will want to stop fighting.
What he does say, is he agrees with William Hague, when he says the longer the war goes on, the greater the risk to international peace.

I sense the mood is shifting.

 

[Weststander]

He might be saying Crimea as meaning the whole lot. It was noticeable that the Donbas wasn't included though.

I don't know where he gets the information from. Perhaps he is speculating. I'm not sure he gets - or communicates - the idea that Ukraine will want to stop fighting.
What he does say, is he agrees with William Hague, when he says the longer the war goes on, the greater the risk to international peace.

I sense the mood is shifting.

Hague: specialist subject, stating the obvious.

 

[Eric the meek]

Hague: specialist subject, stating the obvious.

Obvious to you and me, but not obvious to everyone.

Stating the obvious is never a waste of time.

 

[raymondo]

'War won't be over until Crimea is back in Ukrainian hands, Zelenskyy says'

Russia-Ukraine war: 'Putin's henchmen' threatening UK, Britons warned; Moscow's troops reach key Ukrainian city

Russian troops have reached the Ukrainian city of Toretsk, an anchor of Kyiv's defences in the eastern Donetsk region. Its capture could bring closer the prospect of Moscow securing the entire Donbas. Meanwhile, the MI5 boss has warned Russia wants to create "mayhem" on UK streets.

news.sky.com

Missing from Zelenskyy's statement is any mention of Donbas. This may be just an inadvertent omission, but - I think - he made the same omission a few days ago.

We may be seeing the first signs of some kind of armistice.
I'm reminded of the interview with Sean Bell a few days ago. Watch it from 4:30 onwards. He puts forward the idea of drawing a line on the map to end the war.

I didn't find Sean Bell's view unreasonable. He framed his reply with the potential of the West's reducing its supply of weapons because of economic issues (we'll see) and also the possibility that Ukraine loses too many troops to sustain a long term counteroffensive. So, he wasn't saying Ukraine would lose its desire to keep fighting a counteroffensive but possibly its ability to...at some point.

 

[Questions]

vegster started this.

 

[Mellotron]

I didn't actually realise it was supposed to be a secret?

I reckon millions of Russians are unaware. Why would he bother otherwise?

 

[raymondo]

vegster started this.

He did...and I'd just like to thank all the contributors that keep the thread timely and full of information and opinions. Many of us use different news feeds and this has proven very useful for confirmation and timeliness of info updates.
Anyways... thanks all.

 

[raymondo]

I absolutely believe he has, but how can it empirically be proven as a fact?

I think the ear topography is fairly empirical