[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[raymondo]

Just the once. Give me a chance.

Not too crowded .

 

[raymondo]

Struggling to see how this alleged " provocation " by Ukrainian forces on Russian soil fits in with the current narrative. Putin states that UA forces fired on a civilian vehicle injuring the occupants including a child. But...every day Russia fires on civilians in Ukraine ? ...surely a but late for the old Cold War Provocation game now ?

Aah yes, but Russia DENY they ever target Ukrainian citizens...so that's cleared up then

 

[vegster]

It's for their domestic audience, don't forget the Russian people do not get shown any of the bombing on civilian targets in Ukraine. This is so he can generate anger towards the Ukrainians and inturn gaining Putin more support. This helps Putin in two ways gains him more support and takes attention away from the reasons for the war and to focus instead on hatred towards Ukraine.

Yes, I see the point, probably makes it easier for him to justify Russian War Crimes in Ukraine. I keep forgetting that the Russian media have been used by almost every Russian leader to spread disinformation and lies.

 

[sparkie]

It's for their domestic audience, don't forget the Russian people do not get shown any of the bombing on civilian targets in Ukraine. This is so he can generate anger towards the Ukrainians and inturn gaining Putin more support. This helps Putin in two ways gains him more support and takes attention away from the reasons for the war and to focus instead on hatred towards Ukraine.

A third reason is that he is desperate for more recruits ( who'll likely be dead within the month ). He wants ignorant volunteers.

 

[Eric the meek]

Does anyone else sense that Russia's tactics are changing? False flags, false complaints, false bollocks, you name it.

I remember an article from the Royal United Services Institute a few months ago, saying that as Russia was losing the ground war, we should expect more focus from them on other fronts - cyber warfare, propaganda etc. I suspect we are moving into that phase of the war.

 

[Triggaaar]

Struggling to see how this alleged " provocation " by Ukrainian forces on Russian soil fits in with the current narrative. Putin states that UA forces fired on a civilian vehicle injuring the occupants including a child. But...every day Russia fires on civilians in Ukraine ? ...surely a but late for the old Cold War Provocation game now ?

Trying to make sense of the crap they come out with is futile.

We're not invading Ukraine. Ok, we invaded Ukraine because they're full of nazis. Ok, so it wasn't nazis, it was because they're gay. Ok, we invaded because Nato something.

 

[raymondo]

In the midst of a desperate situation, Ukrainians maintain their excellent sense of humour. Every week we hear or receive jokes from family and friends, even though they are displaced. Here's one (apologies if fixtures):

 

[Triggaaar]

I remember an article from the Royal United Services Institute a few months ago, saying that as Russia was losing the ground war, we should expect more focus from them on other fronts - cyber warfare, propaganda etc. I suspect we are moving into that phase of the war.

I don't know about the changes in their cyber warfare, but they've been full on propaganda since the start, that hasn't really changed.

 

[raymondo]

Does anyone else sense that Russia's tactics are changing? False flags, false complaints, false bollocks, you name it.

I remember an article from the Royal United Services Institute a few months ago, saying that as Russia was losing the ground war, we should expect more focus from them on other fronts - cyber warfare, propaganda etc. I suspect we are moving into that phase of the war.

Yes, here's a couple of thoughts:
- I read a few days ago that cyber attacks on German companies and infrastructure have been increasing, and since Germany promised to send tanks (and not to veto other countries,) attacks have increased sharply
- Our family members in Zaporizhzhia City tell us they have had zero shells or missiles () for nearly 2 weeks now. Given they were being shelled about 3 days per week (since April), this might suggest a shortage of Russian ammo, or readying for a focus on another front. So, an increase in cyber, propaganda, false flag etc could be an alternative means of ,'attack' for the interim I guess.

 

[Eric the meek]

I don't know about the changes in their cyber warfare, but they've been full on propaganda since the start, that hasn't really changed.

I think they're actually ramping it up to 11, when we thought the propaganda dial only goes up to 10.

Just a few recent examples - Ukraine carried out a drone attack on Crimea, Ukraine killed some Russian civilians in an attack on Bryansk, well inside the Russian border, and the US is planning an attack on Russia, because it is worried it is losing its dominance in the world (?).

I think Russia is going for the sympathy vote. It's pretending to be the victim of all this.

 

[Eric the meek]

Yes, here's a couple of thoughts:
- I read a few days ago that cyber attacks on German companies and infrastructure have been increasing, and since Germany promised to send tanks (and not to veto other countries,) attacks have increased sharply
- Our family members in Zaporizhzhia City tell us they have had zero shells or missiles () for nearly 2 weeks now. Given they were being shelled about 3 days per week (since April), this might suggest a shortage of Russian ammo, or readying for a focus on another front. So, an increase in cyber, propaganda, false flag etc could be an alternative means of ,'attack' for the interim I guess.

That's good news about Zap not being shelled any more, at least for now.

The Ukraine top military spy says Russia will be out of 'military tools' by spring. We will see:

Russia will be out of 'military tools' by spring, Ukraine's top military spy says

Maj. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, the country's most senior military intelligence official, says Russia is running out of options for its war in Ukraine.

eu.usatoday.com

 

[raymondo]

Interesting article from a Russian activist behind bars: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-speaks-out-from-russian-prison-putin-ukraine

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

​

Sergei Lavrov: Russian foreign minister laughed at for Ukraine war claims....​

 

[jcdenton08]

​

Sergei Lavrov: Russian foreign minister laughed at for Ukraine war claims....​

You just know in Russia they’ll overdub it on state news with cheering and applause

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

​

Sergei Lavrov: Russian foreign minister laughed at for Ukraine war claims....​

As puppets go, Lavrov is not so far away from Pinocchio's level ...

 

[Eric the meek]

What's all this? Is Prigozhin manoeuvring? Is he getting his excuses in early? He appears to be criticising the Russian government's ability to supply arms to his front line.

'Ukraine-Russia war: Russia is in 'trouble' over shell shortage says Wagner boss'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...-latest-bakhmut-battle-wagner-soldiers-putin/

 

[NooBHA]

That's not something consumers can choose, the Western governments need to get together and understand the threat from China, and make laws to deal with it.

That comes with too many risks.

If you drive the Chinese into the arms of Russia where they are totally reliant on each other for trade then that would be free to replenish Russia's dwindling war arsenal.

At the moment they're probably providing drones and stuff through the backdoor. But if you take away their trading options with the west then they could start to provide arms openly and in larger quantities. And if that happens then the first people to feel the force of those larger arms quantities would be the Ukrainians. And that would make it more difficult for Ukraine to win on the battlefield. So it a very thin line that Western Governments have to tread on this issue.

 

[Triggaaar]

That comes with too many risks.

If you drive the Chinese into the arms of Russia where they are totally reliant on each other for trade then that would be free to replenish Russia's dwindling war arsenal.

At the moment they're probably providing drones and stuff through the backdoor. But if you take away their trading options with the west then they could start to provide arms openly and in larger quantities.

It's not a case of just immediately stopping trading with them. We should make plans where we trade more when they play nicely, and less when they don't. I'd like to see the free world sign a pact where we all deal with these anti-freedom countries together, such that they get hit hard when they decide to wage war etc.

At the moment China is at war with democratic countries, so they see it as in their interest to see places like Ukraine fail. If we allow them to supply Russia with weapons unpunished, then we're heading for a very dark future.

 

[NooBHA]

It's not a case of just immediately stopping trading with them. We should make plans where we trade more when they play nicely, and less when they don't. I'd like to see the free world sign a pact where we all deal with these anti-freedom countries together, such that they get hit hard when they decide to wage war etc.

At the moment China is at war with democratic countries, so they see it as in their interest to see places like Ukraine fail. If we allow them to supply Russia with weapons unpunished, then we're heading for a very dark future.

You might be right and in the future something to consider but at this moment in time the stakes are too high for Ukrainians

 

[Sirnormangall]

Disturbing story in the Sunday Times today about thousands of Ukrainian children abducted by Russia in occupied territory and taken to camps in Russia. No great surprise I suppose: I think we all realise by now that Putin has lost his moral compass, if he ever had one.