[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Billy the Fish]

Interesting read…..

[tweet]1524448245539393539[/tweet]

Well worth reading the thread.

Those drones dropping the converted grenades are incredible!

 

[Brovion]

Finland just announced they're joining NATO.

That'll cheer Vlad up no end.

I don't want to open up the whole 'NATO Expansion' debate again (which has been a particular bee in my bonnet I'll admit), but six months ago I would have been totally opposed to this. "Don't make the paranoid Russians even more paranoid" I'd have said. "They'll be tempted to lash out and get their retaliation in first". Now? Yeah, totally understandable. Sad and worrying, but understandable. I hope the Finns say something like "We always felt we had an excellent relationship with our Russian neighbours. We never felt threatened by them, never felt they wanted to re-fight the Winter War of 1939/40. But now? We're absolutely ****ing terrified."

 

[Eric the meek]

I don't want to open up the whole 'NATO Expansion' debate again (which has been a particular bee in my bonnet I'll admit), but six months ago I would have been totally opposed to this. "Don't make the paranoid Russians even more paranoid" I'd have said. "They'll be tempted to lash out and get their retaliation in first". Now? Yeah, totally understandable. Sad and worrying, but understandable. I hope the Finns say something like "We always felt we had an excellent relationship with our Russian neighbours. We never felt threatened by them, never felt they wanted to re-fight the Winter War of 1939/40. But now? We're absolutely ****ing terrified."

'We feel threat from Russia - Finnish MP'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61404062 10:15

The 'special military operation' has changed everything. Now we know that Russia is not just content with subversion, disruption, veiled threats, cyber warfare and false flag expeditions. We now know it is prepared to invade sovereign peace-loving countries to increase its land area, and it will do or say anything to justify it.

Perhaps Russia judges other countries by its own low standards of behaviour. Perhaps it really sees Nato as a threat. Perhaps it fails to realise that were it not for Russian aggression, Nato would have no reason to exist. The west and Nato, together far stronger than a now weakened Russia, have a responsibility to win the peace.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I know we are not supposed to celebrate Russian deaths but if we were allowed I would say; Excellent. I am glad they died and I hope more get killed in equally spectacular ways. They are mob of rapists and butchers.

A lot of the war criminals of Bucha have already been massacred near Kharkiv.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I know we are not supposed to celebrate Russian deaths but if we were allowed I would say; Excellent. I am glad they died and I hope more get killed in equally spectacular ways. They are mob of rapists and butchers.

I certainly hope that every Russian soldier who steps into a tank on Ukraine soil is well aware that they may never step on land again and may very soon be burned to death. It might make them think twice about following orders or continuing to fight.

 

[beorhthelm]

Perhaps Russia judges other countries by its own low standards of behaviour. Perhaps it really sees Nato as a threat. Perhaps it fails to realise that were it not for Russian aggression, Nato would have no reason to exist. The west and Nato, together far stronger than a now weakened Russia, have a responsibility to win the peace.

to that point, its been argued most of western Europe were winding down on Nato, reducing military expenditure, taking benefits of the peace dividend for 30 years. every country is now reversing policy, increasing spending, and far more deployments made into the eastern flank.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1524670918743805952[/tweet]

 

[Eric the meek]

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Russia does seem to be experiencing an extraordinary amount of bad luck.

It's as if their view of the world is the product of festering perceived injustices and woefully poor research. This, coupled with a certain inability to read the room, has resulted in desperately poor decision making. Aside from the small issue of invading another country, take their threats to stop their gas exports unless they were paid in rubles. What did they think would happen when they decided to do that? It's a masterclass in how to lose your customers, trading partners and decades of income.

 

[Icy Gull]

Are all high ranking Russians as deluded as Putin? This invasion has turned into a complete cluster****, surely Putin will be history soon...if not maybe we all will be

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I don't want to open up the whole 'NATO Expansion' debate again (which has been a particular bee in my bonnet I'll admit), but six months ago I would have been totally opposed to this. "Don't make the paranoid Russians even more paranoid" I'd have said. "They'll be tempted to lash out and get their retaliation in first". Now? Yeah, totally understandable. Sad and worrying, but understandable. I hope the Finns say something like "We always felt we had an excellent relationship with our Russian neighbours. We never felt threatened by them, never felt they wanted to re-fight the Winter War of 1939/40. But now? We're absolutely ****ing terrified."

The case for NATO, nuclear deterrence and conventional forces defence spending has been opposed by many for decades. Recent events do rather illustrate how wrong they were.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61425025

‘Ukraine conflict: Russian soldiers seen shooting dead unarmed civilians’

This footage is an example of the clear evidence being assembled against war criminals. There will be a day of reckoning.

 

[Yoda]

to that point, its been argued most of western Europe were winding down on Nato, reducing military expenditure, taking benefits of the peace dividend for 30 years. every country is now reversing policy, increasing spending, and far more deployments made into the eastern flank.

Exactly, it wasn't that long ago that Trump was threatening to pull the USA out of NATO due to so many members not contributing their 2% of GDP to the funding, and this is Vlad's mate remember. Makes you wonder if there is something from with his memory too?

 

[Nibbler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61425025

‘Ukraine conflict: Russian soldiers seen shooting dead unarmed civilians’

This footage is an example of the clear evidence being assembled against war criminals. There will be a day of reckoning.

It is sickening but unless those soldiers become POWs and are recognised they will get away with it. This war has shown that the Russian state doesn't give a flying cossack about the discipline of its forces.

 

[essbee1]

Exactly, it wasn't that long ago that Trump was threatening to pull the USA out of NATO due to so many members not contributing their 2% of GDP to the funding, and this is Vlad's mate remember. Makes you wonder if there is something from with his memory too?

And as a side-effect of this war, it means that that wan**r, pr**k Trump will hopefully never get back in office. Let's hope he dies soon as well
as Putin.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

And as a side-effect of this war, it means that that wan**r, pr**k Trump will hopefully never get back in office. Let's hope he dies soon as well
as Putin.

Trump's core vote is as oblivious to his catastrophic failings as the Russian population is to Putin's. It's far from a given that Trump won't be re-elected. If he is, Putin takes as much of Eastern Europe as he wants.

This is the trouble of the the media age we are in. If we have learned one thing from the last 10 years it's that people believe what they are being told. If you drip drip misleading news coverage and repeat a message over years or decades enough people believe it, no matter how patently false it is. We see the same effect in action in this country.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

It is sickening but unless those soldiers become POWs and are recognised they will get away with it. This war has shown that the Russian state doesn't give a flying cossack about the discipline of its forces.

These people will never stand trial or face justice for their sickening crimes. The murders, the torture, the rapes, the looting. They will all go unpunished. They may even be explicity rewarded for doing this. The people who used nerve gas to murder in Salisbury ended up in parliament, or I think at least one of them did.

 

[Medwayseagull]

Trump's core vote is as oblivious to his catastrophic failings as the Russian population is to Putin's. It's far from a given that Trump won't be re-elected. If he is, Putin takes as much of Eastern Europe as he wants.

This is the trouble of the the media age we are in. If we have learned one thing from the last 10 years it's that people believe what they are being told. If you drip drip misleading news coverage and repeat a message over years or decades enough people believe it, no matter how patently false it is. We see the same effect in action in this country.

Based on his army's performance in Ukraine I am not sure Putin is capable of taking much of anything.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Trump's core vote is as oblivious to his catastrophic failings as the Russian population is to Putin's. It's far from a given that Trump won't be re-elected. If he is, Putin takes as much of Eastern Europe as he wants.

This is the trouble of the the media age we are in. If we have learned one thing from the last 10 years it's that people believe what they are being told. If you drip drip misleading news coverage and repeat a message over years or decades enough people believe it, no matter how patently false it is. We see the same effect in action in this country.

*the old everyone who disagrees with me is brainwashed classic*

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

*the old everyone who disagrees with me is brainwashed classic*

Nope. A comment on polarisation of news reporting

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Based on his army's performance in Ukraine I am not sure Putin is capable of taking much of anything.

Without tacit NATO support Ukraine would surely have fallen. Russia have a poorly disciplined army but still have the numbers and the penchant for unrestrained brutality to advance through eastern europe if we step away