[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[GoldstoneVintage]

"He's so great, the coolest one with the biggest mouth" if you know that Stevie Wonder song.
He doesn't know, he's making stuff up daily and his acolytes have fallen for it for years.

Kellogg in a recent speech was kissing Trump's ass, saying how incredibly difficult these peace negotiations are and how Trump understands this and can (paraphrasing here) cut the Gordion knot.

However, I do seem to remember the exact same orange cretin claiming peace was easy and it could be solved in a day because he knew exactly what to say and do. Guy's full of sh*t. The only surprising thing is how many gullable tw*ts go along with it.

 

[Eric the meek]

"He's so great, the coolest one with the biggest mouth" if you know that Stevie Wonder song.
He doesn't know, he's making stuff up daily and his acolytes have fallen for it for years.

You're not going to burst into song are you @raymondo?

I know it's Fridat, but it's not six o'clock yet and I've not even thought about my first drink of the day yet.

 

[GoldstoneVintage]

Imagine a future NATO 2.0, minus USA but including Ukraine who are arguably -pound for pound - the most effective military force on the planet.

Even better if they can join the EU.

 

[The Clamp]

A direct result of Trump’s actions. This is on him.

I’m more and more suspicious that Trump and Putin are in league.

Russia launches huge strikes across Ukraine after US halts intelligence-sharing​

Russia launches huge strikes across Ukraine after US halts intelligence-sharing

Attacks come as Ukrainian delegation prepares to meet with US counterparts in Saudi Arabia for ceasefire talks

www.theguardian.com

 

[raymondo]

Something else for people to keep in mind - I wasn’t aware of this until just now. Stephen Kinnock said this on the morning rounds today:

That’s not accurate - he was reported to have said this repeatedly in private during his first term. That’s referenced in this NewsWeek report from December, where Trump talks about taking a tough line on Europe to make them start “treating us fairly”.

But I also found this referenced in a Business Insider article. In 2019, a bill was passed that means Trump can’t pull the US out of NATO without either a two-thirds majority in the Senate or a Bill of Congress.

It doesn’t force him to honour article 5, or stop him from trying to withdraw, but it’s a reminder he doesn’t have it all his own way. Threats, bluster, hubris and willy waving are his MO.

Are we sure he can't overrule that bill with a quick executive order,?

 

[raymondo]

A direct result of Trump’s actions. This is on him.

I’m more and more suspicious that Trump and Putin are in league.

Russia launches huge strikes across Ukraine after US halts intelligence-sharing​

Russia launches huge strikes across Ukraine after US halts intelligence-sharing

Attacks come as Ukrainian delegation prepares to meet with US counterparts in Saudi Arabia for ceasefire talks

www.theguardian.com

He's not done anything that makes me think he isn't in Putin's pocket.

 

[raymondo]

I remember during the height of the Brexit furore, when the Brexit warriors dropped unsubtle hints that they were prepared to withhold UK security expertise, from the EU, as a negotiating tool, the Germans in particular were aghast.

They value our defence capabilities.

Absolutely, and they knew that we were probably the best conduit into US expertise also - that may not be true now of course.

 

[fly high]

He's not done anything that makes me think he isn't in Putin's pocket.

I think you mean everything he has done shows he is 100% in Putin’s pocket.

 

[Eric the meek]

He's not done anything that makes me think he isn't in Putin's pocket.

Perhaps it doesn't actually matter, in that we already know he is a security threat to Ukraine, all of Europe, Canada and the US.

 

[raymondo]

Perhaps it doesn't actually matter, in that we already know he is a security threat to Ukraine, all of Europe, Canada and the US.

You're right - he's a security threat by his actions, whatever his allegiances may be.

 

[The Clamp]

He's not done anything that makes me think he isn't in Putin's pocket.

Well, yes. Well put.

 

[raymondo]

There is a chance here Trump has actually fecked Putin, he has caused Europe to look into themselves and realise we cannot reply on America to always be there. I think Putin is now very worried about Europe growing closer together in their military capabilities investing more in their armed forces etc etc. I could be totally wrong, I am not sure if Trump meant this to happen but Russia are very worried about this seemingly new found zest to back the Ukraine from Europe.

Putins next move is going to be interesting, bigger rockets, more civilian deaths will not go down well right now, he has not the ground forces to penetrate much further into the Ukraine, he is basically a busted flush like his economy.

Quite likely - I hope you're right. But it's not bust until it's bust (elastic bands and all that) and it's not there yet.
Maybe that's why Trump is so desperate to get the deal done. He doesn't want Russia to go bust, wants to help his old pal Putin, and stopping sanctions will help. God I hate them

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

You're right. I didn't give the inclusion of Hungary and Slovakia the attention it warrants.

I'm guessing that either they've both had a volte-face or, somewhat more likely, they both came under pressure from the EU. But I fear their continued presence at the EU table means a real risk of EU policy and detail of defence moves being shared with Putin in advance of it entering the public domain.

'Apologies to toddlers' - I like it.

The gloves are off for the EU when it comes to Putin. They know he’s trying to break the EU so any lapdog in one the EU member countries isn’t going to get any slack. Slovakia and Hungary know this as they also know that the money train has ended from Putin.

The arrest of the Welsh leader of Reform for corruption and spouting pre Putin propaganda will have many across Europe very nervous. It‘s no surprise that the right wing groups in Europe have suddenly become very quiet in the realisation that any Putin links are going to be investigated. Farage for instance has been very, very quiet …. It makes you wonder……

 

[Lethargic]

Possibly, but at least we can be an equal and in the distant future when Russia changes (which it will one day) quite possibly if required we will be bigger and stronger than America, which will descend into another civil war when those scary white rich folk are actually under threat of losing their grip on power as America becomes more diverse,

I could be wrong.

This has been my take for the USA for a while, Trump could have accelerated that journey.

 

[raymondo]

I'm old enough to remember when Keith Kellogg was considered to be sensible and a staunch supporter of Ukraine. Now I see he's just another spineless yes man. He can get in the bin with all the other ****s.
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Exactly. Him, Rubio, Waltz were all lauded as moderates,also by Broe and Warburg, some hope amongst the arseholes. Nope, they all 100% Trump mouthpieces.

 

[CHAPPERS]

You're right - he's a security threat by his actions, whatever his allegiances may be.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The gloves are off for the EU when it comes to Putin. They know he’s trying to break the EU so any lapdog in one the EU member countries isn’t going to get any slack. Slovakia and Hungary know this as they also know that the money train has ended from Putin.

The arrest of the Welsh leader of Reform for corruption and spouting pre Putin propaganda will have many across Europe very nervous. It‘s no surprise that the right wing groups in Europe have suddenly become very quiet in the realisation that any Putin links are going to be investigated. Farage for instance has been very, very quiet …. It makes you wonder……

It's about time Lebedev was kicked out of the House of Lords, too.

 

[SouthSaxon]

Are we sure he can't overrule that bill with a quick executive order,?

Nope. I said in that post, it wouldn’t stop him trying. And it’s not that significant because all he has to do to kill NATO is become a passive member refusing to answer the call.

It was more just a reminder that he projects an image of unLiMiTeD pOwEr by saying any old BS that he thinks people won’t fact check too hard.

 

[Lethargic]

That's an interesting one Jim, which I haven't heard before. For a start, it is good to see the EU have confidence in our defence industry. Let's hope it can be expedited asap, and sort out the finer details later.

The UK defence industry particularly BAE Systems are entrenched in a lot of defence contracts across Europe and this will not change, including significant subsidiaries and partnerships across Europe, BAE Sweden and Rheinmetall BAE Systems are significant player in the world arms industry.

The biggest challenge will be decoupling the European arms manufactures from the USA this is complex and will not stop over night no matter what Trump states publicly

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Imagine a future NATO 2.0, minus USA but including Ukraine who are arguably -pound for pound - the most effective military force on the planet.

Even better if they can join the EU.

Finland joined NATO two years ago after the Ukraine invasion. They already know how to give the Russians a bloody nose.