[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[schmunk]

Ukraine has combat laser tech that has already taken out some Russian drones.
Working on underwater drones...

The technology is progressing fast.

 

[Eric the meek]

Ukraine has combat laser tech that has already taken out some Russian drones.
Working on underwater drones...and the bridge is still on the agenda!

That rings a bell. I remember seeing an article several months ago, on anti-aircraft/drone lasers (above ground, not underwater ones) the UK were testing out. I don't recall if we were planning to share the technology with Ukraine.

 

[raymondo]

Isn't most of it in the Donbas anyway.

Some of it. I don't know what percentage by volume is already under Russian occupation, but this map (probably out dated in terms of control) is very interesting...if it loads!!! You'll see that Russia controls lots of coal areas, and metal (but is that that just iron ore??), plus some rare earth sites. If anyone finds something more useful(volumes, percentage of material etc) please post.

Ukraine's Mineral Resources, Valued at $15 Trillion, Are A Prime Goal for Russia

Ukraine's mineral wealth is immense, requiring only investment for full-scale development. However, it has also become a target for Russia's…

united24media.com

It loaded ok, page down to see the map!

 

[raymondo]

The technology is progressing fast.

Wouldn't that be nice

 

[raymondo]

That rings a bell. I remember seeing an article several months ago, on anti-aircraft/drone lasers (above ground, not underwater ones) the UK were testing out. I don't recall if we were planning to share the technology with Ukraine.

Yeah, I remember that too - seems the basic laser is at least functional.
They are clearly working on underwater drones, probably shipping explosives, avoid the surface weapons firing at them. I'm looking forward to it. It feels like they will be ready to take out the bridge soon - my guess is they'll see how 'peace' talks progress before deciding - they want the capability ready in their back pocket.

 

[Eric the meek]

It's laughable isn't it.
For the average Russian, on winter evenings, all they can do is sit at home, watch that shit, and sadly believe it!

Indeed.

But just look at how the propaganda narrative is changing to reflect the new reality. I've always thought that Russian state TV is a rich source of what is going on in the minds of those leading the Kremlin groupthink.

So while they peddle the message of 'fight to the end' etc, their call to arms resorts to wild claims about the consequences of not fighting the Ukrainians. They judge Ukrainians by their own low standards. The Kremlin elite are thinking of themselves of course. They see their own lives at risk, which they are. But their own lives are at risk from both the Ukrainians and ultimately, other Russians.

 

[raymondo]

Indeed.

But just look at how the propaganda narrative is changing to reflect the new reality. I've always thought that Russian state TV is a rich source of what is going on in the minds of those leading the Kremlin groupthink.

So while they peddle the message of 'fight to the end' etc, their call to arms resorts to wild claims about the consequences of not fighting the Ukrainians. They judge Ukrainians by their own low standards. The Kremlin elite are thinking of themselves of course. They see their own lives at risk, which they are. But their own lives are at risk from both the Ukrainians and ultimately, other Russians.

Yes, their narrative has changed, it's far more defensive now, as in ' oh no, Ukrainians will kill us all '.

I read (yes, I know...) that volunteers to the Russian army have dropped significantly in the last month - maybe the front line videos from Russians is having some effect (Telegram, whatever).
To help counteract this, recruitment in the Samara region now offers eye watering joining up rubles to locals.
I believe there are recruitment quotas by region, so Samara may want to sit proudly at the top of the league.
I imagine there aren't quotas for Moscow or St P at the moment...they are 'tidying up ' the provinces first.

 

[raymondo]

Great footage here.

 

[Eric the meek]

Yes, their narrative has changed, it's far more defensive now, as in ' oh no, Ukrainians will kill us all '.

I read (yes, I know...) that volunteers to the Russian army have dropped significantly in the last month - maybe the front line videos from Russians is having some effect (Telegram, whatever).
To help counteract this, recruitment in the Samara region now offers eye watering joining up rubles to locals.
I believe there are recruitment quotas by region, so Samara may want to sit proudly at the top of the league.
I imagine there aren't quotas for Moscow or St P at the moment...they are 'tidying up ' the provinces first.

I read somewhere else (......) that the enlistment rules were being relaxed, so that people with psychoses, hypertension and syphilis could now be recruited into the military. Just what you need in the trenches.

Come to think of it, that might also have been in Samara.

 

[GT49er]

I read somewhere else (......) that the enlistment rules were being relaxed, so that people with psychoses, hypertension and syphilis could now be recruited into the military. Just what you need in the trenches.

..............or, in Putin think, that might be seen as a way of ridding the country of the burden of some of its less successful/productive citizens. They did, after all, look to get rid of many of their criminals in the same way!

 

[Triggaaar]

Isn't most of it in the Donbas anyway.

Yes, but if Ukraine don't get all of the Donbas back, I wouldn't want them having to give what little raw materials they do have from elsewhere.

 

[raymondo]

I read somewhere else (......) that the enlistment rules were being relaxed, so that people with psychoses, hypertension and syphilis could now be recruited into the military. Just what you need in the trenches.

Come to think of it, that might also have been in Samara.

That's the sort of solid battalion make up an army needs. Give them vodka and painkillers and off they go..

 

[raymondo]

See my post #20103 for a detailed map showing Ukraine's mineral resources...not that I'm feeling needy this afternoon . The map may help future chats on here.

Coal, Oil, gas, metals, ore, rare earths

 

[Eric the meek]

See my post #20103 for a detailed map showing Ukraine's mineral resources...not that I'm feeling needy this afternoon . The map may help future chats on here.

Coal, Oil, gas, metals, ore, rare earths

That's incredible. No wonder Russia is keen to hold on to Donbas.

I now understand Zelensky's approach to Trump, to get the US involved in the extraction of the deposits, so that any future attack by Russia would be more likely to rope the US in to any conflict, and thus render it less likely to happen in the first place.

As an aside, I assume the coal, metals and gas deposits/reserves in the eastern Donbas, extend into the adjacent part of Russia? These could be used as target practice for the Ukrainian drone operators, no?

 

[raymondo]

That's incredible. No wonder Russia is keen to hold on to Donbas.

I now understand Zelensky's approach to Trump, to get the US involved in the extraction of the deposits, so that any future attack by Russia would be more likely to rope the US in to any conflict, and thus render it less likely to happen in the first place.

As an aside, I assume the coal, metals and gas deposits/reserves in the eastern Donbas, extend into the adjacent part of Russia? These could be used as target practice for the Ukrainian drone operators, no?

Yes, I think as @Triggaaar said a few posts back, the trick (a hard one maybe) is to convince Trump that Russia needs to be kicked out of Eastern Donbas, out of all the ground it's gained, so that Ukraine can regain control.

As you say, I imagine the Donbas resources do extend underground into Western Russia, but I don't know how far.

As an historical aside, did you know about Hughesovka, a town founded by a Welshman - it's now called Donetsk. It's an interesting story. I doubt there's any Welsh still spoken there (unlike in Patagonia). Here's the link!

Hughesovka: The city founded by Welsh migrants

Merthyr is marking its role in founding a city in modern-day Ukraine.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Triggaaar]

Some of it. I don't know what percentage by volume is already under Russian occupation, but this map (probably out dated in terms of control) is very interesting...if it loads!!! You'll see that Russia controls lots of coal areas, and metal (but is that that just iron ore??), plus some rare earth sites. If anyone finds something more useful(volumes, percentage of material etc) please post.

Ukraine's Mineral Resources, Valued at $15 Trillion, Are A Prime Goal for Russia

Ukraine's mineral wealth is immense, requiring only investment for full-scale development. However, it has also become a target for Russia's…

united24media.com

So only $15 Trillion. Which is 1.5 sextillion rubles.

I'm clearly missing something obvious here - so far Ukraine have had something like $200 billion in aid (some military, some financial, some humanitarian) - why don't Ukraine promise to use the resources to pay for all aid so far received, as well as another $800 billion worth, as long as her allies help get Russia out of all of Ukraine?

There's the money to pay for it, and it's win win for the West.

 

[Triggaaar]

All is well in the Russian army

 

[Eric the meek]

Yes, I think as @Triggaaar said a few posts back, the trick (a hard one maybe) is to convince Trump that Russia needs to be kicked out of Eastern Donbas, out of all the ground it's gained, so that Ukraine can regain control.

As you say, I imagine the Donbas resources do extend underground into Western Russia, but I don't know how far.

As an historical aside, did you know about Hughesovka, a town founded by a Welshman - it's now called Donetsk. It's an interesting story. I doubt there's any Welsh still spoken there (unlike in Patagonia). Here's the link!

Hughesovka: The city founded by Welsh migrants

Merthyr is marking its role in founding a city in modern-day Ukraine.

www.bbc.co.uk

No, I never knew about Hughesovka at all, although I did know about the Welsh connection with Patagonia.

I enjoy things like that - people ending up in places you wouldn't expect. The 100 Welsh families, the 'founding fathers' of Hughesovka were perhaps the fortunate ones, in that their migrations were voluntary, at least on the way out. Russia has been the author of so many forced migrations.

Thanks for sharing the story.

 

[Eric the meek]

All is well in the Russian army

One day the war will be over. Then, hundreds of thousands of abused, damaged, vengeful Russian soldiers will return to Russia, many still armed. If it isn't already, Russia could become a dangerous place for former commanding officers. That's if the Ukrainians don't get them first.

 

[Eric the meek]

Turkey is beginning to muscle in where Russia was once strong.