[Misc] Religion - the Church of England - what future?

[GT49er]

I haven't seen any animosity on this thread to believers, only to religion as a whole. Unfortunately many religious people take criticism of their beliefs as an attack on them. Criticism towards political views is ok, criticism of football team is ok, criticism of religion is apparently off limits. Given that religion claims to be the leader of morals this inability to accept criticism is at best concerning

Yeh, we're always so nice to Palarse fans who come on here when we've lost a match or something, aren't we.......................................

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Would you care to elaborate........

.......I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Firstly, it's worth adding that the C of E is only one denomination. Maybe the question is really 'Is that it for the UK Christian church?'

Secondly, the church is primarily seen by believers as the being the body of people, not just a physical structure that might in the future be converted into housing, a bingo hall or...gulp...a retail park. Thus a church can meet in a school, a cinema, a warehouse, a pub or anywhere else...not just a religious building. No crosses on roofs compulsory.

Now, to answer the question, there's the issue of theology and how it's applied.

Too often confessional theology says one thing whilst practical theology says something else.
- We say that regeneration makes us new creatures in Christ, but then we teach a moralism that atheists can duplicate
- We say that Christianity is about a trusting relationship with Jesus, but then we treat it like checking a box on a decision card
- We say that only the Holy Spirit transfers a person from darkness to light, but then we employ the same marketing tools used for switching toothpaste brands

Sadly, the perception still remains that church, especially the C of E, is for 'nice' people, whatever standard of 'niceness' is used.

But if religion is all about being nice , then we can be nice outside the church. And it's probably a lot more convenient that way.

Even better, there's plenty of different kinds of nice for a pick n' mix theology:
- Polite but detached tolerance of 'live and let live' nice
- Socially conscious and politically engaged nice
- Denominational and faith-community religious nice
- 'Spiritual but not religious' nice
- Nonconfrontational, 'let's not make you feel uncomfortable, even though we're silently judging you' nice
...and plenty more besides...

Nice allows us to commend ourselves to others..and maybe even to God. Nice gives us the means of self-justification and the ability to vindicate our lives. And if religion is nothing more than an aid to self-improvement, we'd all be emotionally better off if we abandoned the moral and religious project of self-justification and instead adopted the psychological project of personal growth and self-acceptance. The therapeutic professions have been telling us this for the last century.

You don't need Jesus to be nice.

And so the answer, if it's just about being 'nice', is probably 'Yes to some degree'. Declining UK church congregations might back that up.

But maybe we need more than that.

Maybe we don't need to be nice.

Maybe we need to be made anew with a new heart, a new nature and a new paradigm in looking at the world.

But that's a different question...

Nicely argued. You appear to align with Kierkegaard - true?

 

[beorhthelm]

Comments about people stopping believing on God as they become more intelligent?

well thats because it true. unless you'd like to offer an alternative to the decline of relgion since the enlightenment. this is not to say individualy religious people are less intelligent, many are of course very learned. but at a population level, as education increased the need for a religious guidebook has diminished. we dont need gods any more.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Not sure i know any atheists who celebrate jesus at christmas or easter, seems to be more about the days off work, hanging out with family and chocolate

My point exactly, I want Christmas / Easter - the celebration, giving of gifts, eating chocolate eggs, etc. etc. [the commercial aspect] but I don't believe in the history of where those traditional festivals originate.

If you don't believe in God / Jesus etc. is it not a tad hypocritical to celebrate Christmas and Easter? [was my point]

 

[GT49er]

Your concern worries me a lot.

Why? Are you one of those people who thinks we should accept and welcome anything, because we are tolerant and enlightened? It sounds like you're in favour of the 'Anyone who is concerned about some aspects of Islam being introduced into British law/customs' should be labelled as an Islamophobe. Complete bollox!
One day, I might have a great-great-granddaughter. I won't be around to ever meet her, but if when she's growing up and wants to explore her sexuality by sleeping with her boyfriend, I don't want her dragged into a public place, stripped to the waste and flogged so that the scars on her back (and in her head) never heal. If you think that's fine for your great-great-granddaughter, fine - but it still doesn't make me an Islamaphobe, but I think your great-great-granddaughter would agree with me that it makes you a bit of an arse.

 

[beorhthelm]

You are picking out bits of Christian dogma (all Old Testament, if I'm not mistaken) in the same way as ISIS pick the nasty bits they want out of Islam.

the very purpose of religion is to present a whole story, a complete narrative to explain the world and instruct the followers in the rules through ritual and teachings. the Bible is the word of God etc. if we start picking bits out that arent agreeable, then the whole edifice starts to crumble: why not drop this part, that story, reinterpret that event. now its no more than a work of fiction like a fantasy or sci-fi series for people to argue over who has best interpretation. only religion has a lot more zealotry.

 

[Megazone]

Excellent way to show you are not being argumentative for the sake of it.
Outstanding work.

I'm pretty sure it's you who's mocking other peoples faith and the lack of intelligence linked with their beliefs....

How about a coherent debate rather than your way or the highway?

What on earth made you post this pathetic picture if you're not looking for an argument with people who share different views to you?

View attachment 98694

Sorry to sound rude, but you really do come across as a total belled on this thread. Excellent/ outstanding work.

Keep up the debate O wise one.

 

[beorhthelm]

My point exactly, I want Christmas / Easter - the celebration, giving of gifts, eating chocolate eggs, etc. etc. [the commercial aspect] but I don't believe in the history of where those traditional festivals originate.

those festivals dont originate in Christianity. Yuletide/Saturnalia were midwinter festivals and Easter is is a festival for spring and germanic god Ēostre - didnt even bother to change the name.

 

[Mark Mywords]

I mean things like love thy neighbour, fidelity in marriage, forgiveness, unconditional love, and so on. QUOTE]

You don't need Christ for any of these. They are core Human values that existed long before Christ and will go on a lot longer than Christianity.

 

[hart's shirt]

Nicely argued. You appear to align with Kierkegaard - true?

Quite honestly and to my shame, I'm sufficiently ignorant of his writings to give a unequivocal 'Yes'.

(I'll try and rectify this shortly.)

This hastily-researched quote though struck a real chord:

The Bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand, we are obliged to act accordingly.
― Provocations: Spiritual Writings of Kierkegaard

There's a big gap between my intellectual convictions and my preintellectual desire, knowledge and habits.

For example, I know what's healthy to eat and have been sufficiently informed by health advice over the years that regular exercise is good for my body and overall health, but I normally realise this halfway through yet another Big Mac and fries (upsize).

I can't just think or understand my way to a new heart.

 

[pastafarian]

My point exactly, I want Christmas / Easter - the celebration, giving of gifts, eating chocolate eggs, etc. etc. [the commercial aspect] but I don't believe in the history of where those traditional festivals originate.

If you don't believe in God / Jesus etc. is it not a tad hypocritical to celebrate Christmas and Easter? [was my point]

I dont know any atheists that celebrate christmas or easter ,i thought it was about celebrating the birth of christ and celebrating his resurrection not celebrating givings presents or celebrating eating chocolate.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm pretty sure it's you who's mocking other peoples faith and the lack of intelligence linked with their beliefs....

How about a coherent debate rather than your way or the highway?

What on earth made you post this pathetic picture if you're not looking for an argument with people who share different views to you?


Sorry to sound rude, but you really do come across as a total belled on this thread. Excellent/ outstanding work.

Keep up the debate O wise one.

 

[Megazone]

I mean things like love thy neighbour, fidelity in marriage, forgiveness, unconditional love, and so on. QUOTE]

You don't need Christ for any of these. They are core Human values that existed long before Christ and will go on a lot longer than Christianity.

These are the rules which smokescreen the message. I really doubt a prophet would cone down to tell us silly stuff like 'don't kill' 'don't say God's name in vain' blah blah blah. I reckon, if there was a prophet like Jesus, his message would've been about the dangers of economics and power.

How comes Mammon never gets a mention in relation to what the Christian message was? I bet most atheist haven't even heard of Mammon but are yet ridiculing the 'intelligence' of certain religious messages.

Considering how 'evil' many believe the bankers and power lords (Rothchilds, Rockerfella etc) have been and how they're ruling the world. This Mammon stuff, funnily enough, does have some relevance with the modern day. But don't get me wrong, I'm not a christian and have no set beliefs. I'm a respecter of Omnism.

 

[Megazone]

View attachment 98703

Any chance you could get back to discussing Brexit with your fellow online politicians on that thread you live on?

This stuff might be a little over your head.

 

[pastafarian]

Any chance you could get back to discussing Brexit with your fellow online politicians on that thread you live on?

This stuff might be a little over your head.

Talking of things over your head

 

[Megazone]

Talking of things over your head

Here you go mate. Just one click and you'll feel back at home :

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showt...down-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019

What was that about arguing for the sake of it?

Posting crap pictures you've frantically searched for on google just shows how low on wit you are.

Go back to annoying The Clamp. I'm leagues above you. See ya x

 

[One Love]

Here you go mate. Just one click and you'll feel back at home :

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showt...down-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019

But no-one's arguing with me there

 

[Megazone]

But no-one's arguing with me there

Just say something like "You horrible tory *******" or "You nutty leftwing lunatic" and you'll fit in just fine.

 

[pastafarian]

Here you go mate. Just one click and you'll feel back at home :

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showt...down-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019

What was that about arguing for the sake of it?

Posting crap pictures you've frantically searched for on google just shows how low on wit you are.

Go back to annoying The Clamp. I'm leagues above you. See ya x

How many times you been banned now?, Falmer, rosa, hybrid.
And how do you type "pastafarian colander" frantically?