[Albion] Ref watch

[Seagull58]

I think that's in reference to more contact being allowed this season, a good thing IMO.

It will take a while for everyone to realise what they can/cant get away with with regards to contact and wilfully falling over.

It was noticeable in this weekend's matches that they are allowing more contact and that stopping quickly then falling over when the defender touches you is no longer an automatic foul. However, a shoulder charge in the back in the penalty area should still be a penalty.

 

[Bodian]

I can sort of understand McTominay being a yellow as both players went in robustly and it caught him just above the ankle. It was borderline but can accept that. The penalty was a joke decision. Fair enough if the ref doesn’t have great view, he wouldn’t be able to see the full extent of the contact from behind but what the hell were VAR and the linesman thinking. Scandalous.

However I genuinely think it may work out in our favour, I do think over the next few weeks a penalty decision that is 50/50 will go in our favour. When they do their weekly debrief the refs will know we were robbed and subconsciously that will be in there the next time we appeal.

Glass half full!

Much as I dislike United's usual crowding antics and enjoyed the total lack of dissent in the women's Euros, you do have to wonder if we had appealed more vigorously and surrounded the ref whether they may have had a proper look?

 

[GT49er]

I can sort of understand McTominay being a yellow as both players went in robustly and it caught him just above the ankle. It was borderline but can accept that. The penalty was a joke decision. Fair enough if the ref doesn’t have great view, he wouldn’t be able to see the full extent of the contact from behind but what the hell were VAR and the linesman thinking. Scandalous.

However I genuinely think it may work out in our favour, I do think over the next few weeks a penalty decision that is 50/50 will go in our favour. When they do their weekly debrief the refs will know we were robbed and subconsciously that will be in there the next time we appeal.

Glass half full!

You do realise that that is entirely dependent on who we are playing, don't you? Although yes, I would agree that getting a decision at OT is the most protected of the lot.

 

[GT49er]

I've been bombarding @FA_PGMOL on twitter today to try and get some sort of response. It probably needs 100,000 other twitter users to do the same thing.

It probably needs 100,000 other twitter users for an 'Error 404' or similar message to pop up.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Isn't the bolded bit key though?

If you can see why it wasn't given in real time, from the ref's perspective on the field, then it wasn't a clear and obvious error, in which case the VAR shouldn't intervene?

Edit: although should/could the lino (who was useless) have picked this up?

It was a clear and obvious error because he did not give what was a clear and obvious penalty

 

[Acker79]

I also can't believe (or, in some ways I can) that referring/VAR is a major issue on the first weekend of a new season, after it's been around for multiple seasons?

Because it is still being tinkered with because people are complaining about it's implementation over the previous season. So it's about the implementation of new policy around VAR.

People will complain every year. I believe there is no version of VAR policy that will please enough people that those unhappy are an ignorable minority. So we will have issues early in every season while refs get used to that seasons new approach.

 

[GT49er]

Isn't the 'clear and obvious' thing, more along the lines of did the ref make a clear and obvious error in real time, not if when watching on TV it's an obvious error?

It's a fine line between the two, but I think it could be argued that the ref, from where he was, reasonably thought it wasn't a foul. That might have been more the case this season as apparently more contact is allowed, hence the "teething problems" mentioned.

Bobbins!

You have fallen onto the same trap as English referees/PGMOL (as opposed to abroad, where they seemed to grasp the idea without difficulty). If, after looking at it in slomo for two minutes, from about 8 different cameras, with virtual (guessed) lines across the pitch, it appears that someone's toenail, litte finger, or floppy bit at the front of their quiff is in an off-side position - yes, it is off-side - but not a clear and obvious ERROR.

If there is a foul that the referee doesn't spot, or is more serious than the referee thinks, or someone gets wrestled to the ground waiting for a corner, or something happens off the ball that is missed by the referee (and the linesmen - I won't refer to them as referee's assistants because they don't!) then THAT is a clear and obvious error by the on-field officials - which s what VAR is there for.

Just don't see why English refs just couldb't grasp that - even 'Refs are never wrong' Dermot thought both yesterday's big calls were wrong and should have been VARred - just couldn't bring himself to say the word 'Wrong'! Bless his bald liitle head!

 

[hampshirebrightonboy]

I can sort of understand McTominay being a yellow as both players went in robustly and it caught him just above the ankle. It was borderline but can accept that. The penalty was a joke decision. Fair enough if the ref doesn’t have great view, he wouldn’t be able to see the full extent of the contact from behind but what the hell were VAR and the linesman thinking. Scandalous.

However I genuinely think it may work out in our favour, I do think over the next few weeks a penalty decision that is 50/50 will go in our favour. When they do their weekly debrief the refs will know we were robbed and subconsciously that will be in there the next time we appeal.

Glass half full!

No. What will happen is refs will be more inclined to give pens for pushes inside the box for a while.
Probably give a soft one for March on Wilson next Saturday.

 

[WhingForPresident]

I actually can't believe even Dermot Gallacher has come out saying the ref called those wrong.

The McTominay one probably should've been red, but I think there can be some allowance for not giving it. The penalty, however, was a ****ing disgrace. Absolutely a second yellow for Martinez too.

What will change as a result of Tierney & crew's **** ups? Jack shit. Obviously.

 

[theboybilly]

Mike Dean is in overall charge of VAR this season, as well as doing VAR on specific matches.

I stand corrected, Sir

 

[GT49er]

I actually can't believe even Dermot Gallacher has come out saying the ref called those wrong.

He really did (although was genetically unable to use the actual word 'wrong'!). He did, however, almist swallow his tongue admitting it was definately a penalty!

I bet he can't sleep tonight!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I've no problem with the ref not giving it on the field. What I don't understand, like the lot on the panel in the video, is how VAR haven't watched it and at least got him to go and have a look at the monitor. Same applies for McTominay's tackle.

I hate VAR and the game would be better off without it IMO but if we've got to have it then bloody well use it!!

If the top referees we have in this country are still getting it wrong even with the help of video assistance, what hope is there that they can get it right without it?

Just more evidence we lack enough top quality referees

 

[mwrpoole]

So Paul Tierney, who shall we say ‘missed’ a few things on Sunday, is this week the VAR for ManU’s next game.

 

[Brok]

We have Graham Scott on Saturday. I don't know what his reputation is like?

 

[Dirty Dave]

Thankfully, that decision didn't affect the result. Surely VAR saw it as a pen though, it was that clear.

The only thing I can think off is VAR have told the ref this but he's immediately dismissed it, believing he's made the right call and didn't need to take another look.

I like to think we're entitled to some sort of explanation, even to just help us all understand why certain decisions are taken


Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

 

[rippleman]

Not really understanding where you are going with this?

What I meant by saying I can see why he didn't give it in real time was meant to mean that it is a very fast game and he's got one chance to see it and not the multiple angles and slowed down to frame by frame that VAR does have. It's clear to me, pretty much everyone on this thread and the 4 experts including a former ref (and also Keith Hackett who tweeted about it) that there was a clear and obvious error made by the officials.Yet it wasn't even looked at by the man in the middle. Why?

Why?

Because #teamslikebrighton get nothing at Old Trafford. Never have and never will.

The officiating continues to be poor. Usually I can put it down to incompetence. Just now and then I wonder if the officials are bent. The McThug tackle and penalty incidents on Sunday very much had me thinking that there is maybe more to this than sheer incompetence.

 

[pb21]

Bobbins!

You have fallen onto the same trap as English referees/PGMOL (as opposed to abroad, where they seemed to grasp the idea without difficulty). If, after looking at it in slomo for two minutes, from about 8 different cameras, with virtual (guessed) lines across the pitch, it appears that someone's toenail, litte finger, or floppy bit at the front of their quiff is in an off-side position - yes, it is off-side - but not a clear and obvious ERROR.

If there is a foul that the referee doesn't spot, or is more serious than the referee thinks, or someone gets wrestled to the ground waiting for a corner, or something happens off the ball that is missed by the referee (and the linesmen - I won't refer to them as referee's assistants because they don't!) then THAT is a clear and obvious error by the on-field officials - which s what VAR is there for.

Just don't see why English refs just couldb't grasp that - even 'Refs are never wrong' Dermot thought both yesterday's big calls were wrong and should have been VARred - just couldn't bring himself to say the word 'Wrong'! Bless his bald liitle head!

Is offside VAR applied differently in other countries?

Here they don't look for clear and obvious error, they objectively look for whether it was onside or not, sound argument its flawed though, but didn't they give the defending player a thicker line now?

 

[Screaming J]

Mike Dean is in overall charge of VAR this season, as well as doing VAR on specific matches.

Not something that inspires me with confidence about VAR for the rest of the season.....

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Because it is still being tinkered with because people are complaining about it's implementation over the previous season. So it's about the implementation of new policy around VAR.

People will complain every year. I believe there is no version of VAR policy that will please enough people that those unhappy are an ignorable minority. So we will have issues early in every season while refs get used to that seasons new approach.

And that's kinda my point/the problem. I've said from the beginning that I thought it was CRAZY to bring in VAR in the first place, without a proper trial and evaluation period.

Products don't typically make it to market without being tested to their limits, shoved in front of various focus groups and signed off by people in authority. VAR is – and always has been – a shambles. It should've (and could've) been spot on from the start. Instead, the PL/FA whoever, cocked it up completely and now no-one understands it fully (as threads such as this one prove), fewer people want it and the people running football have completely messed up an opportunity to use technology to actually help the game and clear up and issues from it.

 

[Icy Gull]

What I find bizarre is that a foot a couple of inches in front of a defenders is analysed to the extreme before a decision is made, but a shove in the back that is hard enough to push an athletic man over is ignored. There is no way in hell that Welbeck went looking for a penalty he was barged with force. Zero chance that was simulation.

I should just get over it I guess, it made no difference in the end but Christ it is still annoying me

I hope a very similar thing occurs in United's next match with their player getting barged over in the box. It would be fascinating to see what VAR man Tierney would do. Ref gives it and Tierney on VAR reverses it would be nice.