[Albion] Ref watch

[hampshirebrightonboy]

Gallagher nailed it when he said the Ref should have said 'i thought it was shoulder to shoulder' and VAR should have replied ' No it wasn't, you should take a look '.

Also surprised the Lino didn't spot it too..

I'm not - the worst Lino I have ever witnessed. There were two instances towards the end where he could not wait to award a goal kick to Utd. The ball did not even cross the line in both cases but he flagged it.
Only five feet away and he could not see the ball had not crossed the line.
Absolutely f*cking useless

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

No, I don't think it is, although I don't know for sure!

If you can look at something and say 'I can see why the ref didn't give that', despite TV replays from other angles showing a foul, then that is not defined as 'a clear and obvious error'. As such, VAR has no remit.

I thought VAR is to prevent massive cock ups, where you think 'how did the ref not give that', or where the ref cocked up by being in completely the wrong place.

In this case you can see why the ref didn't give it, so no VAR. But I could be wrong on all that!

Also, the lino should have seen it clear as day, but I'm not sure they have authority to call a foul/penalty?

You're pretty well wrong on every count there. If the ref misses an off the ball incident then var will tell him, so therefore if he missed an on the ball incident var is there to inform him. Lino's aren't Lino's they're assistant ref's. They are there to assist the ref so bloody obvious they should call out foul play.

 

[Washie]

Didn't the players all have to return to the pitch after the final whistle for a VAR-awarded penalty once?

Now, who was that against?

No, the final whistle hadn't actually blown, A whistle was blown, and people thought it was for full time.

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[KZNSeagull]

That explanation, in that Gallagher cannot give a sensible one, just makes it worse for me. All I can conclude is that "raising the bar" is referee/VAR speak for crooked.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

No, the final whistle hadn't actually blown, A whistle was blown, and people thought it was for full time.

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Sorry wrong. The final whistle had been blown, by three short blasts. That is why it was wrong to then back track. The ref ****ed up by finishing the game.

 

[pb21]

That explanation, in that Gallagher cannot give a sensible one, just makes it worse for me. All I can conclude is that "raising the bar" is referee/VAR speak for crooked.

I think that's in reference to more contact being allowed this season, a good thing IMO.

It will take a while for everyone to realise what they can/cant get away with with regards to contact and wilfully falling over.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I think that's in reference to more contact being allowed this season, a good thing IMO.

It will take a while for everyone to realise what they can/cant get away with with regards to contact and wilfully falling over.

Being pushed over?

 

[KZNSeagull]

I think that's in reference to more contact being allowed this season, a good thing IMO.

It will take a while for everyone to realise what they can/cant get away with with regards to contact and wilfully falling over.

So smashing into someone's back with your shoulder is now fair game? Should be a fun season then.

 

[pb21]

So smashing into someone's back with your shoulder is now fair game? Should be a fun season then.

No, I think everyone's concluded that would be a foul and it warranted a penalty

 

[Icy Gull]

No, I think everyone's concluded that would be a foul and it warranted a penalty

Except yesterday's ref and VAR of course

 

[KZNSeagull]

No, I think everyone's concluded that would be a foul and it warranted a penalty

Except the ref and VAR, hence my conclusion that it must therefore be crooked.

 

[JJ McClure]

I assume PGMOL are hiding under whatever rock they usually use, rather than either a) explaining or b) fessing up.

 

[pb21]

Except yesterday's ref and VAR of course

Except the ref and VAR, hence my conclusion that it must therefore be crooked.

The ref, in real time, didn't think it was a foul, but I can see why they didn't, particularly considering they have been told to allow more contact this season.

On that basis, there is nothing VAR can do.

Having said that, based on his general performance, I do think he let the situation cloud his judgement somewhat and I fully expect he would have given a man utd penalty in the opposite scenario.

 

[Arthur]

Isn't the bolded bit key though?

If you can see why it wasn't given in real time, from the ref's perspective on the field, then it wasn't a clear and obvious error, in which case the VAR shouldn't intervene?

Edit: although should/could the lino (who was useless) have picked this up?

Not really understanding where you are going with this?

What I meant by saying I can see why he didn't give it in real time was meant to mean that it is a very fast game and he's got one chance to see it and not the multiple angles and slowed down to frame by frame that VAR does have. It's clear to me, pretty much everyone on this thread and the 4 experts including a former ref (and also Keith Hackett who tweeted about it) that there was a clear and obvious error made by the officials.Yet it wasn't even looked at by the man in the middle. Why?

 

[Acker79]

No, I don't think it is, although I don't know for sure!

If you can look at something and say 'I can see why the ref didn't give that', despite TV replays from other angles showing a foul, then that is not defined as 'a clear and obvious error'. As such, VAR has no remit.

I thought VAR is to prevent massive cock ups, where you think 'how did the ref not give that', or where the ref cocked up by being in completely the wrong place.

In this case you can see why the ref didn't give it, so no VAR. But I could be wrong on all that!

Also, the lino should have seen it clear as day, but I'm not sure they have authority to call a foul/penalty?

I think it depends on how you are able to 'see why the ref didn't give it'.

If it's a case of 'he is clearly too far away, and out of position with players running across his eyeline' then you can understand why he didn't give anything, but it is clearly wrong to not take action - VAR should get involved. If it's 'well, he would have seen how the fouled player threw himself to the floor dramatically and that put doubt in his mind as to how much force was in the contact' then no, VAR shouldn't get involved.

'Was there a clear and obvious error' in refereeing terms is more a case of 'does the referee's view of what actually occurred match what the VAR sees on the video - nb prior to making any decision'. This is why Dermot's explanation of how it should have gone (ref say I saw a shoulder to shoulder challenge, VAR say that's not what happened, have another look). The ref says what he saw (that is, what he used as the basis of his decision) the VAR either lets the decision stand because what the referee saw is essentially how it happened, or if it is not, the VAR advises the ref to look again.

It's not about the VAR making a judgement on the decision itself, just making sure the ref is basing his decision on the actual events.

The ref, in real time, didn't think it was a foul, but I can see why they didn't, particularly considering they have been told to allow more contact this season.

On that basis, there is nothing VAR can do.

I made a similar point in other threads. The problem, as I acknowledge in those threads, is that the ref gave other fouls that has less contact in this match. This particular challenge was more forceful than other challenges for which he gave free kicks, which undermines the argument.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

The ref, in real time, didn't think it was a foul, but I can see why they didn't, particularly considering they have been told to allow more contact this season.

On that basis, there is nothing VAR can do.

Having said that, based on his general performance, I do think he let the situation cloud his judgement somewhat and I fully expect he would have given a man utd penalty in the opposite scenario.

That's the who;e reason for VAR to tell the ref he needs to have another look at or to acknowledge he got it right. This was so obvious it is clear that VAR needed to tell him. Otherwise what's the point.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

One of the few times where I have been 100% convinced the ref was cheating. On top of completely wrong decisions he didn't even try and hide the fact he was crooked with his constant grinning and body language. The tackle was a clear red and could have easily been career ending. Also the clear penalty where he just smirked and played on. Should be investigated.

You know he comes from Manchester right?

 

[pb21]

It's not about the VAR making a judgement on the decision itself, just making sure the ref is basing his decision on the actual events.

Yep, I've just read the actual 'rules'

VAR can be used to overturn a subjective decision if a "clear and obvious error" has been identified.

The referee will explain their decision to the VAR, and what they have seen.

If the evidence provided by the broadcast footage does not accord with what the referee believes they have seen, then the VAR can recommend an overturn.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297392

Incidentally, the background image on the link has Man Utd being awarded a penalty by VAR.

 

[Ali_rrr]

Aren't the Premier League going to release the audio from VAR-Referee discussions? I'm curious when we'll hear what was said.

 

[White Fan man]

It was a penalty 100% and Mctom's was borderline red. The fact that both challenges were brushed over quickly tells you everything you need to know about VAR. Said for ages now that the team who does VAR should have no relationship to the refs in the middle (i.e. use a foreign country's referees for the VAR). Graham Poll said years after he retired that he didn't give unfavourable decisions at Old Trafford because Fergie ensured you didn't get to referee there again in a hurry if you did. Any of the big 6 would have got these decisions 90 % of the time. At least it didn't affect the final result.