Racism in Australia

[London Irish]

Last year's riots were because an alcoholic Aborignal woman accused the police of chasing and killing two Aboriginal kids. They rioted. CCTV camera's proved she lied, and I believe she was sent to prison for it. And rightly so. She whipped up anti-police feeling & caused riots.

Tim, how does any of the links you are posting back up the claims you are making here? What role did these women have as witnesses to the death of the boy?

What CCTV footage proved "who" lied?

Of course people were arrested during the riots, but how were these woman caught "lying" about the death of the boy and therefore causing the riots?

 

[South Yarra Seagull]

THis is from Melbourne's broadsheet newspaper, The Age. It details the alarming role talkback radio and one radio host in particular played in the buildup to the weekend's events.

The government, state and federal should be condeming this kind of incitement to riot.

"BY THURSDAY last week Alan Jones was screaming like a race caller whose horse was coming home. "I'm the person that's led this charge here. Nobody wanted to know about North Cronulla, now it's gathered to this."

The riot was still three days away and Sydney's highest-rating breakfast radio host had a heap of anonymous emails to whip his 2GB listeners along. "Alan, it's not just a few Middle Eastern bastards at the weekend, it's thousands. Cronulla is a very long beach and it's been taken over by this scum. It's not a few causing trouble. It's all of them."

Sunday's trouble did not come out of the blue. It was brewing all week on talkback radio — particularly on 2GB.

Radio doesn't get much grimmer than Alan Jones' efforts in the days before the Cronulla riot. He was dead keen for a demo at the beach — "a rally, a street march, call it what you will. A community show of force."

He assured his huge audience he "understood" why that famous text message went out and he read it right through again on air. "Come to Cronulla this weekend to take revenge. This Sunday every Aussie in the Shire get down to North Cronulla to support the Leb and wog bashing day …"

Daily he cautioned his listeners not to take the law into their own hands, but he warmed to listeners who had exactly that on their minds.

Last Thursday Charlie rang to suggest all junior footballers in the Shire gather on the beach to support the lifesavers. "Good stuff, good stuff," said Jones.

"I tell you who we want to encourage, Charlie, all the Pacific Island people because, you want to know something, they don't take any nonsense. They are proud to be here — all those Samoans and Fijians. They love being here. And they say, 'Uh huh, uh huh. You step out of line, look out.' And, of course, cowards always run, don't they?"

When John called on Tuesday to bluntly recommend vigilante action — "If the police can't do the job, the next tier is us" — Jones did not dissent. "Yeh. Good on you, John." And when he then offered a maxim his father had picked up during the war — "Shoot one, the rest will run" — the broadcaster roared with laughter. "No, you don't play Queensberry's rules. Good on you, John."

It was horrible stuff, larded with self-congratulation. And pity poor Berta — "not of a Middle Eastern family" — who tried to argue there were two sides to this story. When she reported hearing "really derogatory remarks" aimed at Middle Eastern people on Cronulla beach, Jones cut her off: "Let's not get too carried away, Berta. We don't have Anglo-Saxon kids out there raping women in western Sydney."

Yesterday, 2GB broadcasters claimed two-thirds of calls coming into the station supported "what happened" at Cronulla on Sunday. But Alan Jones is not around to deal with the aftermath. He's having a well-earned holiday.

TALKBACK RADIO
CALLER TO 2UE, SYDNEY
MOIR: Look, you know, I feel like everybody else. I'm really upset about this whole thing. I grew up in Cronulla. I'm a Cronulla girl, and I reverted to Islam four years ago, and I get so upset to hear people talking about these thugs, these Lebanese thugs, in terms of Islam.
CALLER TO 2GB, SYDNEY
MARK: It's not about keeping Australia white, it's about keeping Australia right — having the right people, the right culture and the right feeling. What we've got here now is totally away from where we want to be.

CALLER TO 3AW
DOROTHY: I'd class those ones who took part in that yesterday, they're not fit to be called Aussies — dirty, filthy, drunken little scumbags."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...led-this-charge/2005/12/12/1134236003153.html

 

[London Irish]

Cheers South Yarra, that's very informative.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Tim, how does any of the links you are posting back up the claims you are making here? What role did these women have as witnesses to the death of the boy?

What CCTV footage proved "who" lied?

Of course people were arrested during the riots, but how were these woman caught "lying" about the death of the boy and therefore causing the riots?

London Racist, it is well known in Sydney what happened. I couldn't give a monkeys what you think you know. Trying to make me out as a racist because you are unable to collate the correct facts and hence having to guess what happened matters little to me. I was IN Sydney when it happened. In fact, I live about 15 minutes walk from Redfern. I was here when the riots occurred - I've listened to live witnesses on both sides. You have second-hand facts, and shabby opinions on your side. But to you that's gospel so it's impossible to have a serious debate.

By the way, in Australia, the legal term "riot" is extremely serious and includes incitement. Otherwise they would be charged with throwing bottles etc. There is a legal difference and you need to understand that. This is Australian law, not British.

 

[London Irish]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Stumpy Tim
Last year's riots were because an alcoholic Aborignal woman accused the police of chasing and killing two Aboriginal kids. They rioted. CCTV camera's proved she lied, and I believe she was sent to prison for it. And rightly so. She whipped up anti-police feeling & caused riots.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is no point me in repeating the questions I suppose Tim. You've given up any attempt at defending your original statement above. Fair enough.

You actually have a very hazy grasp of what triggered this Aboriginal community riot, and your point about living so close to it doesn't really reflect any more credit on you. To side instinctively with the police against this aboriginal family, by making up stuff about drunken witnesses who were proved by CCTV to have lied about the death of this lad and causing the riot, is poor. But you've given us an insight into the kind of hearsay that must have spread around your neighbourhood at the time.

Meanwhile, the international campaign to reopen the boy's inquest goes on:

http://www.eniar.org/news/tjhickey.html

 

[A Melbourne Albion Supporter]

You are in total denial if you don't think the third world conditions of the Aboriginals isn't a disgrace to all Australians. Australia actually holds the distinction of being the only developed country whose government has been condemned as racist by the United Nations because of the discrimination practised against the indigenous peoples.

And Pauline Hanson's vote may have declined over the last two years, but how much of that was due to John Howard chasing after it?

I am not in denial, read my previous posts I openly talk about their situation and how things are belatedly and slowly changing for them with hundreds of millions being spent on health, work, housing and education

Your second point is true, but then again Howard is a

 

[Stumpy Tim]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Stumpy Tim
Last year's riots were because an alcoholic Aborignal woman accused the police of chasing and killing two Aboriginal kids. They rioted. CCTV camera's proved she lied, and I believe she was sent to prison for it. And rightly so. She whipped up anti-police feeling & caused riots.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is no point me in repeating the questions I suppose Tim. You've given up any attempt at defending your original statement above. Fair enough.

You actually have a very hazy grasp of what triggered this Aboriginal community riot, and your point about living so close to it doesn't really reflect any more credit on you. To side instinctively with the police against this aboriginal family, by making up stuff about drunken witnesses who were proved by CCTV to have lied about the death of this lad and causing the riot, is poor. But you've given us an insight into the kind of hearsay that must have spread around your neighbourhood at the time.

Meanwhile, the international campaign to reopen the boy's inquest goes on:

http://www.eniar.org/news/tjhickey.html

And your instinctive reaction to defend rioters does you little service either London Racist.

I give you the facts reported at the time. Both Melbourne & I have said that the police were PROVEN to be innocent- that's people who lived here & had reports on a daily basis. You choose to ignore these facts & instead side with the Aboriginal family who are inevitably emotionally strained having lost their 14 year old son. Of course they want to blame someone. That's your choice. But once again you choose to defend the minority.

You are a racist, and you don't even know it

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

THis is from Melbourne's broadsheet newspaper, The Age. It details the alarming role talkback radio and one radio host in particular played in the buildup to the weekend's events.

The government, state and federal should be condeming this kind of incitement to riot.

"BY THURSDAY last week Alan Jones was screaming like a race caller whose horse was coming home. "I'm the person that's led this charge here. Nobody wanted to know about North Cronulla, now it's gathered to this."

The riot was still three days away and Sydney's highest-rating breakfast radio host had a heap of anonymous emails to whip his 2GB listeners along. "Alan, it's not just a few Middle Eastern bastards at the weekend, it's thousands. Cronulla is a very long beach and it's been taken over by this scum. It's not a few causing trouble. It's all of them."

Sunday's trouble did not come out of the blue. It was brewing all week on talkback radio — particularly on 2GB.

Radio doesn't get much grimmer than Alan Jones' efforts in the days before the Cronulla riot. He was dead keen for a demo at the beach — "a rally, a street march, call it what you will. A community show of force."

He assured his huge audience he "understood" why that famous text message went out and he read it right through again on air. "Come to Cronulla this weekend to take revenge. This Sunday every Aussie in the Shire get down to North Cronulla to support the Leb and wog bashing day …"

Now there's a guy that should be in jail for inciting a riot

 

[Row Z Creased Shirt]

And yet you have still to condemn the Lebanese for their part. Shameful

This was my whole point earlier, the people who should pay for the attack on the life guards are the people who actually carried out the attack. They should be caught, put on trial and put away, its that simple.

But what actually happens is that the violent criminals go from being individuals to becoming 'the lebanese' as a generic group. This is where all the tension comes from.

And I have to say that incidents like this are used by racists to inflame tensions between communities. All perspective gets lost in these situations and the people who tend to end up paying the highest price are those that are innocent, and the guilty end up getting away with the original crime.

The hysteria and indignation that surrounds these incidents shows the worst in human nature, and they are exploited by those who have no interest in harmony between the communities.

And Tim, I was quoting you just to show how easy it is for the language of this debate can be misinterpreted or get out of hand, and not casting any aspertions on you.

 

[tedebear]

Now there's a guy that should be in jail for inciting a riot

my parents listen to him - daily mail type stuff if ever i hear it!!

 

[looney]

TALKBACK RADIO
CALLER TO 2UE, SYDNEY
MOIR: Look, you know, I feel like everybody else. I'm really upset about this whole thing. I grew up in Cronulla. I'm a Cronulla girl, and I reverted to Islam four years ago, and I get so upset to hear people talking about these thugs, these Lebanese thugs, in terms of Islam.

[/B]

Interesting. Using Revert rather than Convert is a term of abuse in a conversation with an unbeleiver. Its also steeped in fundementalist dogma.

 

[London Irish]

And your instinctive reaction to defend rioters does you little service either London Racist.

I give you the facts reported at the time. Both Melbourne & I have said that the police were PROVEN to be innocent- that's people who lived here & had reports on a daily basis. You choose to ignore these facts & instead side with the Aboriginal family who are inevitably emotionally strained having lost their 14 year old son. Of course they want to blame someone. That's your choice. But once again you choose to defend the minority.

You are a racist, and you don't even know it

When people can't produce to facts to back up false statements, they resort to name-calling. Everyone can see what you're doing Tim.

 

[Dave the OAP]

what do you people expect? Australia was the dumping ground for all our criminals therefore it was allways going to kick off.

 

[Dandyman]

Interesting. Using Revert rather than Convert is a term of abuse in a conversation with an unbeleiver. Its also steeped in fundementalist dogma.

Agree on the second point but on the first does it not just mean someone brought up as a Muslim reverting to observance of that faith?

 

[shingle]

When people can't produce to facts to back up false statements, they resort to name-calling. Everyone can see what you're doing Tim.

mmm Pot and Kettle come to mind

 

[London Irish]

This was my whole point earlier, the people who should pay for the attack on the life guards are the people who actually carried out the attack. They should be caught, put on trial and put away, its that simple.

But what actually happens is that the violent criminals go from being individuals to becoming 'the lebanese' as a generic group. This is where all the tension comes from.

Well put. This incident turned into a race riot because, for some reason, the white Cronulla mob started to blame the entire Lebanese community for the actions of some isolated criminals. It is how that happened that should be looked at very, very closely. And those who incited this riot with their words or their deeds should be prosecuted to send a clear message for the future.

At some point along the line, this solidarity gathering on the beach in favour of the murdered lifeguard, which it seems a lot of people who would be horrified to be described as racists thought was a good idea at the time, got hijacked by a clear racist agenda.

It was the ease with which that happened that should give be giving all Australians sleepless nights. The neo-Nazi far right, the racist rabble-rousers on talk radio were all culpable to be sure, but how far have their ideas over the past few years infected the "common sense" understanding of the ordinary white people who went to the beach that day?

It's time for liberal Australia to go on the offensive against racist ideas and all those who propogate them, and take their country back from the beach rednecks.

 

[shingle]

Agree on the second point but on the first does it not just mean someone brought up as a Muslim reverting to observance of that faith?

The Muslim position is, that there is no such thing as a convert to Islam. Everybody is born a muslim so therefore if you 'convert' to Islam, you're not in fact converting but reverting.

 

[Dandyman]

The Muslim position is, that there is no such thing as a convert to Islam. Everybody is born a muslim so therefore if you 'convert' to Islam, you're not in fact converting but reverting.

It would seem you are correct...

From Sheik Yusuf Estes,
National Chaplain
Islam Tomorrow.com
Alexandria, VA - USA

Salam Alaykum:

We received an email asking about the increase in the number of people "reverting to Islam." Good Question!

This gives me the excuse to do something that I have wanted to do for a long time. I have wanted to write on the subject of "Reverts to Islam in Modern Times" and the message that it carries to all of us as Muslims and non-Muslims.

BACK TO ISLAM?
Reverts to Islam In Modern Times - by Yusuf Estes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Revert" As Opposed to "Convert"
I like to use the word "revert" as opposed to the word "convert" as it more suits the occasion of a person returning back to his natural condition at birth. The baby is born in true surrender, submission, obedience and peace with his Creator. And this is the desirable position of the Muslim, to be in peace and submission to the Will of Allah (God in English). Instead of thinking in terms of "converting" people over to Islam, it is better understood that they are simply returning back to their natural state at birth. And this is from the teachings of our beloved prophet, Muhammad, peace be upon him. (Muslims should always say "Peace be upon him/them" when referring to any of the prophets).

 

[London Irish]

You can't blame the average Australian who has the Surf lifesaver image embedded in them from an early age wanting to show that these kind of attacks are not on, no matter who did them.

I think you can blame the "average Australian" if their actions triggered a vigilante movement that ended up in full-scale racist mob violence.

I'll give you an equivalent to show just how dumb their actions were.

Say, on the night following Anthony Walker's stabbing in Liverpool, that all the local black youth of that city had decided that had to march to show their solidarity with this tragically murdered teenager, to show that these attacks "are not on".

So they gather together a few thousand young black hotheads from across the city and they march to the estate of Taylor and Barton to make their feelings known to the local white community that produced these killers.

Now, do you think that would have all ended happily?

Do you think people stirred up and angered to act in an communal white v black way would have marched peacefully?

IF that had happened, of course you would have had another race riot on your hands in Liverpool.

But the local black community stayed calm (unlike in the past), and trusted the system to find the killers.

Why couldn't the Cronulla hot-heads have done the same? What stirred them up in such a inflammatory and dangerous way? Those answers will have to be found, and quickly.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

I think you can blame the "average Australian" if their actions triggered a vigilante movement that ended up in full-scale racist mob violence.

I'll give you an equivalent to show just how dumb their actions were.

Say, on the night following Anthony Walker's stabbing in Liverpool, that all the local black youth of that city had decided that had to march to show their solidarity with this tragically murdered teenager, to show that these attacks "are not on".

So they gather together a few thousand young black hotheads from across the city and they march to the estate of Taylor and Barton to make their feelings known to the local white community that produced these killers.

Now, do you think that would have all ended happily?

Do you think people stirred up and angered to act in an communal white v black way would have marched peacefully?

IF that had happened, of course you would have had another race riot on your hands in Liverpool.

But the local black community stayed calm (unlike in the past), and trusted the system to find the killers.

Why couldn't the Cronulla hot-heads have done the same? What stirred them up in such a inflammatory and dangerous way? Those answers will have to be found, and quickly.

At a guess, I would say about 10 tins of Fosters each, inflammatory radio presenters, and some very clever agitators in the community who managed to wind them up and point them in the right direction.