Racism in Australia

[Stumpy Tim]

Can I ask you a question now? The local surf gangs who responded to the alleged original attack - do you condemn them or "understand" them?

While we're on the subject can I ask you a question? Do you condemn the Lebanese gangs or "understand" them? Because at the moment you have condemned the surf gangs, but only offered excuses for the Lebanese.

Though your language is less abhorent than that of "sydney" your views are remarkably similar. He believes the lebanese are the cause of all troubles. You seem to believe that the whites are the cause of all troubles. The reality, inevitably, is somewhere in the middle

 

[London Irish]

There's no "claiming" that a gang of Lebanese stabbed a white life saver - that's what happened Mr. Popular. You state that the whites are at fault though you have no understanding of what happened, and have no understanding of Australian culture. Every sensible person around understands that BOTH groups are at fault. Both sets of ethnic groups are attacking innocent people and undetaking mob justice. But that doesn't sit with Plastic Irishes anti-white views.

And obviously I condemn them. I also condemn the Lebanese gangs, which you seem unable to do. I have a lot of ethic friends - I'm engaged to someone who isn't white for a start. But don't let that stop you labelling me a racist because I question your beliefs.

By condemning everyone, you condemn no one, Tim. The question you have to give a clearer answer to is why that white racist mob in Cronulla suddenly appeared out of nowhere and triggered the dramatic escalation of previously isolated racial incidents.

Where did that appalling tide of angry white racism come from? We know that Australia's leading far right/neo-Nazi groups were active in that racist attack, Australia First, the Patriotic Youth League and the skinhead group Blood and Honour all boast of leading the charge.

What about the role of Pauline Hanson's One Nation party over the last few years that has legitimised so much anti-immigrant racism in Australia? What about the deplorable role of rightwing talk radio in Sydney that spreads redneck fear and paranoia throughout the city?

These riots don't come out of nowhere. Everyone forgets now but there were also riots involving Aboriginals in Sydney last year. Australia has something akin to the problem that France has in the anger of brutalised, dispossessed people, but it also has this white racist backlash element that is peculiar to that city of Synney and will have to be fought hard and defeated by all Australian politicians and the media.

But when you have a remote rightwing clown like John Howard in charge who even denies there is a problem of racism in Australia (not surprising because his immigration policy stokes up so much of it), then I think that country has big problems facing it.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

By condemning everyone, you condemn no one, Tim. The question you have to give a clearer answer to is why that white racist mob in Cronulla suddenly appeared out of nowhere and triggered the dramatic escalation of previously isolated racial incidents.

Where did that appalling tide of angry white racism come from? We know that Australia's leading far right/neo-Nazi groups were active in that racist attack, Australia First, the Patriotic Youth League and the skinhead group Blood and Honour all boast of leading the charge.

What about the role of Pauline Hanson's One Nation party over the last few years that has legitimised so much anti-immigrant racism in Australia? What about the deplorable role of rightwing talk radio in Sydney that spreads redneck fear and paranoia throughout the city?

These riots don't come out of nowhere. Everyone forgets now but there were also riots involving Aboriginals in Sydney last year. Australia has something akin to the problem that France has in the anger of brutalised, dispossessed people, but it also has this white racist backlash element that is peculiar to that city of Synney and will have to be fought hard and defeated by all Australian politicians and the media.
.

No. By condeming all those involved, I am condeming all those involved. Not no one. I condemn people who attack Lebanese, Greeks, Whites, other middle-eastern people etc just because of the colour of their skin. At the moment, you appear only to condem the whites. And I find that baffling.

Neo-Nazi's exist in every country - including Australia. The race riots over here are the same as in many Western countires. I ws talking to a guy I work with who is Ozzie born but a Greek descendant. He now lives two streets back from Cronulla beach. When he went to school there were many different cultures and they mixed happily. I believe terrorism in recent years has turned much of the young Muslim against the West, and young whites against young Muslims. Both sides are to blame

Last year's riots were because an alcoholic Aborignal woman accused the police of chasing and killing two Aboriginal kids. They rioted. CCTV camera's proved she lied, and I believe she was sent to prison for it. And rightly so. She whipped up anti-police feeling & caused riots.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

While we're on the subject can I ask you a question? Do you condemn the Lebanese gangs or "understand" them?

Want to have a crack at this Placky?

 

[London Irish]

The reality, inevitably, is somewhere in the middle

You're saying NOTHING!

All violence FROM WHOEVER must be condemned, but that is so grossly simplistic it is not even worth saying. What was the trigger? What was the cultural and political environment that led a huge racist white mob to escalate an isolated criminal act into a race war? These are the things that need to be addressed!

Have a go at the immigrants all you want, but they have next to no power and influence in that country. What you ACTUALLY have is a powerful white establishment that is providing the preconditions for a dramatic resurgence of racism while being in total denial when that racism explodes on to the front pages! Those IN POWER have the responsibility and the influence to change the current situation! That ain't the immigrants!

But give 'em a kicking if you think that will do some good Tim

 

[London Irish]

Want to have a crack at this Placky?

I'll type quicker next time. It's not as easy as saying "it's something in the middle"

 

[London Irish]

Last year's riots were because an alcoholic Aborignal woman accused the police of chasing and killing two Aboriginal kids. They rioted. CCTV camera's proved she lied, and I believe she was sent to prison for it. And rightly so. She whipped up anti-police feeling & caused riots.

Trust you to believe the police over the Aboriginal community - more of your even-handedness and being "in the middle", eh Tim?

The woman you are smearing as an alcoholic and a liar is the dead boy's mother. Sent to prison? She is campaigning around the world currently to reopen the case and get the police officers prosecuted.

Here, have a look at the grieving mother you've just smeared

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National...J-Hickeys-death/2005/02/13/1108229845607.html

 

[A Melbourne Albion Supporter]

What about the role of Pauline Hanson's One Nation party over the last few years that has legitimised so much anti-immigrant racism in Australia? What about the deplorable role of rightwing talk radio in Sydney that spreads redneck fear and paranoia throughout the city?

Pauline Hanson and One Nation are not even as issue on the political radar anymore, haven't been for at least 2 years now...not an up to date relevant example LI

I agree with you on shock jocks, they are vocal few unfortunately.

These riots don't come out of nowhere. Everyone forgets now but there were also riots involving Aboriginals in Sydney last year. Australia has something akin to the problem that France has in the anger of brutalised, dispossessed people, but it also has this white racist backlash element that is peculiar to that city of Synney and will have to be fought hard and defeated by all Australian politicians and the media.

As stumpy said this was issue that was blown out of proportion as it was proven that the police had nothing to do with the accident that killed the boy, and yes it did bring some old police/aboriginal issues to the surface.

No migrant group or native person in Australia is brutalised, they would be as much brutalised as they are in UK, Canada or NZ...this is not a police state and assertions like that are BS!

As for dispossessed, speak to your ancestors and mine about that...

 

[Stumpy Tim]

You're saying NOTHING!

All violence FROM WHOEVER must be condemned, but that is so grossly simplistic it is not even worth saying. What was the trigger? What was the cultural and political environment that led a huge racist white mob to escalate an isolated criminal act into a race war? These are the things that need to be addressed!

Have a go at the immigrants all you want, but they have next to no power and influence in that country. What you ACTUALLY have is a powerful white establishment that is providing the preconditions for a dramatic resurgence of racism while being in total denial when that racism explodes on to the front pages! Those IN POWER have the responsibility and the influence to change the current situation! That ain't the immigrants! But give 'em a kicking if you think that will do some good

Where have I given the immigrants kicking? Why do you continue to plant extremist views in the opinions of others who don't have those views? From accusing me of giving immigrants a good kicking to claiming GNF on Tour that he is being "carried along by a hysterical tide of anti-immigrant propaganda". Why are you unable to have a debate without propogating such nonsense about others? That's why no one respects you on this board. Your occasional good points are utterly ruined by your belittling language & outright exagerations.

As I have said repeatedly, I portion blame to both sides - and that is the reality. You STILL HAVEN'T CONDEMNED THE LEBANESE IN THIS. Why not?

And I have explained my opinion on why white & Lebanese gangs are fighting - I believe it is due to the rise in terrorism causing the Young Muslims to disklike the West, and the young white to dislike the young Muslims.

Leaders from both sides need to be involved. Do you honestly think John Howard alone can change the views of the disassociated? It's about Howard reaching out to the Muslim community and the Muslim community reaching back. Currently, neither is happening.

 

[A Melbourne Albion Supporter]

Victorian traditional owners secure 'historic' native title claim
A Federal Court judge has formally recognised a native title claim in western Victoria.

More than 200 people gathered in Little Desert National Park, 375 kilometres north-west of Melbourne, to hear the determination.

The court sitting included six lawyers representing the 400 interest groups in the mediation.

Justice Ron Merkel told the gathering his determination recognised the Wotjobaluk people's historic right to hunt, fish and camp along the Wimmera River.

Further agreements will ensure the Indigenous people are consulted on future developments in the original claim area.

Emotional speeches followed as local people reflected on the long fight for native title and the work of elders who have since passed away.

Justice Merkel told the gathering that the determination held special significance.

"The outcome of the present claim is testimony to the fact that the tide of history has not washed away any real acknowledgment of traditional laws and any real observance of traditional customs by the applicants," he said.

Victoria's Attorney-General says the native title determination will encourage other claimants to negotiate their land use rights.

Rob Hulls says it sets a precedent for negotiating native title in Victoria.

"I think this is an historic decision and it helps create a path for others to follow," he said.

"Importantly I think it encourages all parties to approach claims through mediation rather than litigation."

http://abc.net.au/news/australia/vic/westvic/200512/s1529871.htm

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Trust you to believe the police over the Aboriginal community - more of your even-handedness and being "in the middle", eh Tim?

The woman you are smearing as an alcoholic and a liar is the dead boy's mother. Sent to prison? She is campaigning around the world currently to reopen the case and get the police officers prosecuted.

Here, have a look at the grieving mother you've just smeared

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National...J-Hickeys-death/2005/02/13/1108229845607.html

Where did I say that the Mother was the woman who claimed the Police killed the kid? The FACT, Placky, is that CCTV images prove the police had nothing to do with it. And the woman who told the local kids that the police killed this kid was prosecuted. FACTs that you know nothing of because you get a watered down version of events as you live on the other side of the world, while I live within walking distance of the scene of these riots.

It seems you're smearing me now. Please refrain from doing so

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I'll type quicker next time. It's not as easy as saying "it's something in the middle"

And yet you have still to condemn the Lebanese for their part. Shameful

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Oops - pressed Quote instead of Edit

 

[London Irish]

Where did I say that the Mother was the woman who claimed the Police killed the kid? The FACT, Placky, is that CCTV images prove the police had nothing to do with it.

It seems you're smearing me now. Please stop

Who the hell is this alcoholic woman who got sent to prison then? You made that up didn't you, just because you have instinctively sided with the police against this Aboriginal family?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Who the hell is this alcoholic woman who got sent to prison then? You made that up didn't you, just because you have instinctively sided with the police against this Aboriginal family?

No I didn't. You are the ones who make things up about others. I report on the facts. For example, you made up the fact that this poor mother caused a riot. I maintain it was someone else. You made up a story about me wanting to give the Lebanese a good kicking. I didn't.

Just because you don't have all the facts doesn't mean that they aren't there. Now run along you RACIST

 

[London Irish]

And yet you have still to condemn the Lebanese for their part. Shameful

Look at my post 1.15am

 

[London Irish]

No I didn't. You are the ones who make things up about others. I report on the facts.

OK, I'll ask again - find some facts about this so-called alcoholic witness who police prosecuted and sent to prison because she lied.

 

[London Irish]

No migrant group or native person in Australia is brutalised, they would be as much brutalised as they are in UK, Canada or NZ...this is not a police state and assertions like that are BS!

You are in total denial if you don't think the third world conditions of the Aboriginals isn't a disgrace to all Australians. Australia actually holds the distinction of being the only developed country whose government has been condemned as racist by the United Nations because of the discrimination practised against the indigenous peoples.

And Pauline Hanson's vote may have declined over the last two years, but how much of that was due to John Howard chasing after it?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

OK, I'll ask again - find some facts about this so-called alcoholic witness who police prosecuted and sent to prison because she lied.

Her name is Carol Ada Green. She was charged with "riot, affray, using violence causing fear and throwing a bottle in a public place". More details to be found at First Link

In addition, Lyall Munro Jr - a local Aboriginal activist - was also arrested for the same

 

[Stumpy Tim]

The victim's Aunt was charged with the same

Second Link