Question Time

[gazingdown]

Excellent. So you are happy to go and live in Easterhouse, Glasgow? You reckon there's no poverty problem in the UK. That's a delusion that is a result of where you are.

What does where I am "happy" to live got to do with anything? Anyway, do people in Easterhouse have a roof over their head?, are they literally starving? Do they have hot/cold running water? Do they have access to healthcare/doctors? If the answer is no to all of those then yes, they are in poverty. Or are they, really, just very poor? Of course it's a crap lifestyle but I bet many in shanty towns of south america/India/etc. would gladly swap for it.

Anyway, there will always be pockets of really poor parts of the country in sink estates etc. Go to india, there are WHOLE shanty towns of people starving, begging for food, rarely able to wash themselves apart from in polluted waters, no chance of healthcare etc.

If poverty is to be "relative" then it's IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of it by definition of the word "relative". It doesn't matter how rich we ALL get, there will always be those that fall into the poorest X% (whatever that is), doesn't mean they are in "poverty".

The problem is with this trivialisation of the term "poverty" (by politicians, media etc.). It should always be absolute and something we should certainly try to eradicate in this country. What is *really* meant by "poverty" when spoken about by politicians etc. is actually just those that are very poor.

 

[BigGully]

Er, you want the example of just one person? What? Do you want me to do this one person at a time?

1 in 5 children in the UK is living in poverty. To give you an idea of what that means - it means they are living in a family that has an income of £250 per week. And that does not exclude housing costs.

So, after you've paid housing costs (which yes, are subsidised) you then have to buy food etc. Of course, in such a happy situation as this, when faced with all the joys of the world, you're not going to consider cigarettes and alcohol are you. I'm sure they just exist on a nice balanced vegetarian diet! No. We shouldn't be surprised that people who live without hope turn to things like fags and booze - but that certainly doesn't mean that they all do.

Poverty does exist. Even the Tory government admits it exists. No political party is blind to the fact that in the UK poverty exists.

What are those housing costs and how much is subsidised and can they use the private housing stock, we all have to pay for housing it is a burden for us all, it needs to be shown as a benefit ??

What other benefits are they in receipt of, free school meals ??

 

[Hamilton]

What does where I am "happy" to live got to do with anything? Anyway, do people in Easterhouse have a roof over their head?, are they literally starving? Do they have hot/cold running water? Do they have access to healthcare/doctors? If the answer is no to all of those then yes, they are in poverty. Or are they, really, just very poor? Of course it's a crap lifestyle but I bet many in shanty towns of south america/India/etc. would gladly swap for it.

Anyway, there will always be pockets of really poor parts of the country in sink estates etc. Go to india, there are WHOLE shanty towns of people starving, begging for food, rarely able to wash themselves apart from in polluted waters, no chance of healthcare etc.

If poverty is to be "relative" then it's IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of it by definition of the word "relative".

We are talking about poverty in the UK. If you think there is no poverty in the UK then you are a more callous man than I.

 

[Hamilton]

What are those housing costs and how much is subsidised and can they use the private housing stock, we all have to pay for housing it is a burden for us all, it needs to be shown as a benefit ??

What other benefits are they in receipt of, free school meals ??

Why don't you go and find out, then prove to us all that poverty in the UK doesn't exist. The government agencies in the UK will be delighted with your findings - they're all under the impression that it's real. Would you believe it!?

 

[User removed 4]

Why don't you go and find out, then prove to us all that poverty in the UK doesn't exist. The government agencies in the UK will be delighted with your findings - they're all under the impression that it's real. Would you believe it!?

They really , really wouldn't, they then might find themselves out of a job.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

They really , really wouldn't, they then might find themselves out of a job.

Due to the government they are probably already out of a job...or being hired on higher rates and paying less tax the next day to do exactly the same job but allowing the government to demonstrate they have cut the number of public sector employees.

 

[Hamilton]

They really , really wouldn't, they then might find themselves out of a job.

And twist...

 

[gazingdown]

We are talking about poverty in the UK. If you think there is no poverty in the UK then you are a more callous man than I.

I see you've evaded my questions about Easterhouse.

Please let me know where the poverty is please so we can arrange for them to have hot/cold running water, food, a roof over their head, access to healthcare/doctors etc. But I rather suspect, even in very poor areas, they have access to all these unlike those in REAL poverty.

Ultimately, you don't believe in absolute poverty, only relative poverty (i.e. v poor) right?

 

[BigGully]

Why don't you go and find out, then prove to us all that poverty in the UK doesn't exist. The government agencies in the UK will be delighted with your findings - they're all under the impression that it's real. Would you believe it!?

Yeah, there is a handy little benefit calculator on the directgov website.

I was an unemployed single parent to two young boys, I would imagine that this would fit into your 'poverty profile'.

Now I am not dismissing the difficulty for some in these situation but if you compare to many on here working it does offer an insight to the benefit system.

It is not POVERTY.

You may be able to claim the following benefit(s), which we have estimated for you:

Child Tax Credit £113.68 per week

Housing Benefit £200.00 per week

Council Tax Benefit £11.54 per week

Child Benefit £33.70 per week

Jobseeker's Allowance (Contribution based) £71.00 per week


Total weekly income £429.92 per week

The further benefits that can be accessed:

Extra help that may be available to you:

Free school meals

NHS Healthy Start Vouchers for children under four years old

Free NHS prescriptions

Free NHS dental treatment

Free NHS sight test

Vouchers towards the cost of glasses or contact lenses

(Reasonable) travel costs to hospital for NHS treatment

 

[Hamilton]

I see you've evaded my questions about Easterhouse.

Please let me know where the poverty is please so we can arrange for them to have hot/cold running water, food, a roof over their head, access to healthcare/doctors etc. But I rather suspect, even in very poor areas, they have access to all these unlike those in REAL poverty.

Ultimately, you don't believe in absolute poverty, only relative poverty (i.e. v poor) right?

I believe poverty exists. In this country and in other countries. I haven't evaded any question on Easterhouse. You can be in poverty and have a roof over your head. As for the ridiculous argument you put suggesting that if we were all millionaires with gold plated taps in our bathrooms then poverty would still exist due to the fact that one man's taps might be bigger than another's, I just ignored that comment because it's clearly silly.

 

[Hamilton]

Yeah, there is a handy little benefit calculator on the directgov website.

I was an unemployed single parent to two young boys, I would imagine that this would fit into your 'poverty profile'.

Now I am not dismissing the difficulty for some in these situation but if you compare to many on here working it does offer an insight to the benefit system.

It is not POVERTY.

You may be able to claim the following benefit(s), which we have estimated for you:

Child Tax Credit £113.68 per week

Housing Benefit £200.00 per week

Council Tax Benefit £11.54 per week

Child Benefit £33.70 per week

Jobseeker's Allowance (Contribution based) £71.00 per week


Total weekly income £429.92 per week

The further benefits that can be accessed:

Extra help that may be available to you:

Free school meals

NHS Healthy Start Vouchers for children under four years old

Free NHS prescriptions

Free NHS dental treatment

Free NHS sight test

Vouchers towards the cost of glasses or contact lenses

(Reasonable) travel costs to hospital for NHS treatment

Good grief. This calculator is an indicator of what might be available. And no, selecting mum with two boys does not automatically fall into any poverty profile. As someone on here said - it may even have been you - that are many other factors that go into determining poverty.

I'm not disagreeing that there are significant efforts UK Plc has gone through to try to eradicate poverty. What I am saying is that the problem does exist and there is still more to do.

 

[BigGully]

Good grief. This calculator is an indicator of what might be available. And no, selecting mum with two boys does not automatically fall into any poverty profile. As someone on here said - it may even have been you - that are many other factors that go into determining poverty.

I'm not disagreeing that there are significant efforts UK Plc has gone through to try to eradicate poverty. What I am saying is that the problem does exist and there is still more to do.

Your the one that uses the emotive and unqualified word poverty.

Someone that is in receipt of over £400.00 per week for not working is not in poverty, circumstances might be difficult etc, but that isnt the same as poverty.

 

[Billy the Fish]

With regards to Sunderland...

25.4% - that's over 15,000 of our children and young people are living in poverty in Sunderland. 64% of these children are in lone parent families. An even greater number, over 30,000 (51%) are living in low income families, finding it hard to manage day to day family life and unable take part in many of the opportunities and experience that many of us take for granted.

But that's only if you apply their standard measure of poverty, which is frankly bullshit, as people are trying to tell you. It's just a tool for politicians to beat other politicians with and nothing else. In fact I find it a really stupid generalisation.

 

[gazingdown]

I believe poverty exists. In this country and in other countries. I haven't evaded any question on Easterhouse. You can be in poverty and have a roof over your head.

So basically, it comes down to how you define poverty.
Those in Easterhouse, I rather suspect, have (as well as a roof over their head), hot/cold water, heathcare/doctors, food (not starving at least) etc. If so, they're not (under the definition of absolute poverty) in poverty.

Your (and others, including some politicians etc.) definition of poverty is a higher standard of living that that of mine (and of those in many 3rd world countries).

By all means, I agree that we (as a society) should help those who are very poor (and moreso those in real poverty) but, imo, to simply call those who are very poor in this country as being in "poverty" just demeans and trivialises those actually in real (absolute) poverty. THAT is callous and I put that insinuation that you made back to YOU.

Anyway, IMO, we are on the same page so to speak if we agree that what we are really talking about in this country is those who are very poor, whatever label is put in it ("poverty" is a poor label imo for the reasons above).

 

[Hamilton]

Your the one that uses the emotive and unqualified word poverty.

Someone that is in receipt of over £400.00 per week for not working is not in poverty, circumstances might be difficult etc, but that isnt the same as poverty.

Poverty is an emotive word. It is not unqualified.

Your calculator on directgov is administered on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions. The same department hosts this web page...

Households Below Average Income (HBAI)

Yes you can argue that Mr and Mrs A bring in this and Mr & Mrs B bring in that, but what is a beholden truth is that there are people living in poverty, and they are in the UK.

 

[Butch Willykins]

Why do these people in Poverty have kids then? Or were not in poverty before the kids showed up?

It's utter left wing shite to suggest that huge numbers of the UK are in 'Poverty'.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

Yeah , a convicted burglar who writes seriously shit poetry who's got such a chip on his shoulder about this country he turned down the OBE that a patronising white establishment offered him, seriously , why do we "need" to hear from him more ? , he is a second generation immigrant who hates the way this country is and is so proud of his caribbean roots , yet still lives here , the reason people like you "need to hear from him more" is to make yourself feel good about how cool and down with multiculturalism you are, I bet he cannot believe his f***ing luck how people like you fawn over him and how the absolute dogshit he passes off as poetry is taken seriously .

Blimey man!

That is quality ranting!

 

[Hamilton]

So basically, it comes down to how you define poverty.
Those in Easterhouse, I rather suspect, have (as well as a roof over their head), hot/cold water, heathcare/doctors, food (not starving at least) etc. If so, they're not (under the definition of absolute poverty) in poverty.

Your (and others, including some politicians etc.) definition of poverty is a higher standard of living that that of mine (and of those in many 3rd world countries).

By all means, I agree that we (as a society) should help those who are very poor (and moreso those in real poverty) but, imo, to simply call those who are very poor in this country as being in "poverty" just demeans and trivialises those actually in real (absolute) poverty. THAT is callous and I put that insinuation that you made back to YOU.

Anyway, IMO, we are on the same page so to speak if we agree that what we are really talking about in this country is those who are very poor, whatever label is put in it ("poverty" is a poor label imo for the reasons above).

We are on the same page in that the definition of poverty is the state of being extremely poor. If that's the definition, then nobody can surely deny that there are extremely poor people in the UK, and that many of those people are poor through reasons that have been made hard to escape from by their condition or conditions in which they live. Many of those people deserve help.

If you agree with that then you're not callous.

Right now, I have to go back to work before I find myself in poverty!

 

[Hamilton]

Why do these people in Poverty have kids then? Or were not in poverty before the kids showed up?

It's utter left wing shite to suggest that huge numbers of the UK are in 'Poverty'.

Which is why many right wingers also agree that poverty exists e.g. Iain Duncan Smith.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why do these people in Poverty have kids then? Or were not in poverty before the kids showed up?

It's utter left wing shite to suggest that huge numbers of the UK are in 'Poverty'.

Are you suggesting that people in poverty should be barred from having children? In those parts of the world where poverty is endemic, would you add 'not being allowed to have children' to the other tragedies of their lives?