Question Time

[JCL666]

His post was specifically about a woman/man/family who is on benefits and decides to continue to have babies.

Ok, so what do you/he want to do?
Stop their benefits and thereby indirectly punish the child, especially if they have a poor diet and maybe become homeless?
Take the child into care, although that will actually cost more?

OR

Acknowledge that these things happen and we should be trying to address why they happen? (and I don't mean disincentives, I mean education etc)

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Considering he left school at 13 unable to read or write and encourages children to read and write I think he is doing alright actually.

I'd go further and say he is a role model for those who have made mistakes in their lives. I think he has turned himself around pretty well all things considered.

 

[Waynflete]

You could do that very straightforwardly without tying it to median income - e.g. the $1.25 (which I believe is measured in current US dollars) a day figure.

The problem with the definition used is that it results in completely illogical policy, if you are looking to really attempt to sort out poverty; and conversely good poverty-targeted policy might actually make the indicator worse. Poverty policy should be looking to make the worst off (if they really are living in poverty) better off; but in so doing, you might raise the median income bar to such an extent that more people then end up being classified as 'in poverty' as they earn less than 60% of the new median.

The relative measure definitely has weaknesses as you say, but the $1.25 absolute poverty figure doesn't solve them. Someone living on $1.25 a day in Bangladesh, while very poor, will at least stand a better chance than someone trying to live off $1.25 a day in London. So the calculation of poverty has to be relative in some way. Instead of median income you could tie it to a representative basket of goods, or the retail price index, but one way or another you have to put a relative measurement in there.

 

[Simster]

But they already had someone to represent the Bushy's of this world, Nick Griffin and he was torn to shreds.

Bushy is right here, Nick Griffin really wasn't torn to shreds at all, sadly. Which IMO, just goes to show what a bunch of saps we have in the front benches across the three main parties.

 

[Nibble]

I'd go further and say he is a role model for those who have made mistakes in their lives. I think he has turned himself around pretty well all things considered.

Quite. And he didn't do any of it to chase after an honour.

 

[Nibble]

Bushy is right here, Nick Griffin really wasn't torn to shreds at all, sadly. Which IMO, just goes to show what a bunch of saps we have in the front benches across the three main parties.

Yes, I have conceded that and agree with you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

what i've said today makes me a racist in your mind , so be it

It's more what you have said over time. 99.9% of your posts relate to non-white people in negative terms or a perceived double standard of some nature. It's dull, repetative and in my view of a racist nature.

 

[sten_super]

The relative measure definitely has weaknesses as you say, but the $1.25 absolute poverty figure doesn't solve them. Someone living on $1.25 a day in Bangladesh, while very poor, will at least stand a better chance than someone trying to live off $1.25 a day in London. So the calculation of poverty has to be relative in some way. Instead of median income you could tie it to a representative basket of goods, or the retail price index, but one way or another you have to put a relative measurement in there.

Er, that's precisely what I was getting at, although looking back I didn't explain it very well. The equivalent to $1.25 isn't simply a case of applying the exchange rate to get a sterling (or any other currency) equivalent, but rather of calculating the purchasing power of $1.25 and then working out that same purchasing power in a raft of currencies to give a comparable measure. I don't know the statistics particularly well, so not sure how they account for housing costs, etc. (which presumably aren't paid by those living in Asian shanty towns but would be by practically everyone in the UK) but you get the gist.

 

[User removed 4]

It's more what you have said over time. 99.9% of your posts relate to non-white people in negative terms or a perceived double standard of some nature. It's dull, repetative and in my view of a racist nature.

That is like a dagger piercing my heart HT , anyway I am off now to meet a couple of fellow NSC'ers for a small libation.

 

[BigGully]

I'd go further and say he is a role model for those who have made mistakes in their lives. I think he has turned himself around pretty well all things considered.

I dont know much about the bloke, but I am guessing he flunked school became a burgler and somehow came to prominence with some pretty dire poems.

Seriously what kind of role model do you think he is and to who ??

 

[Nibble]

I dont know much about the bloke, but I am guessing he flunked school became a burgler and somehow came to prominence with some pretty dire poems.

Seriously what kind of role model do you think he is and to who ??

I suggest you read up about him, he has and does do a lot of work with children and is more than just a "bad poet". Your post kind of says it all really.

Benjamin Zephaniah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I amnot a big fan of his work tbh but there's no denying, the boy done good!

 

[Waynflete]

Er, that's precisely what I was getting at, although looking back I didn't explain it very well. The equivalent to $1.25 isn't simply a case of applying the exchange rate to get a sterling (or any other currency) equivalent, but rather of calculating the purchasing power of $1.25 and then working out that same purchasing power in a raft of currencies to give a comparable measure. I don't know the statistics particularly well, so not sure how they account for housing costs, etc. (which presumably aren't paid by those living in Asian shanty towns but would be by practically everyone in the UK) but you get the gist.

Oh okay! In which case we broadly agree with each other. I think that whatever measure is used to calculate the purchasing power of $1.25 in a given country will broadly align with the median income - i.e. a country with a higher median income will have a higher cost of living.

The question then is where do you set the poverty line? What do you need to be able to buy to be considered not in poverty? I expect most people would think you have to be able to afford food, heating and so on, but what about transport so you can leave your immediate neighbourhood, books for your kids etc.? That's where it gets controversial, and drawing the line at 60% of median income has become an established rule of thumb to judge it.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

As someone that runs a small business turning a small profit and employs casual workers that I pay considerably more than the minimum wage, I too wonder why some large companies feel it imperative to pay such low wages and still deem themselves viable.

I guess previously they were paying even lower wages and we are told it keeps them competitive.

There seems to be a real problem in that sector of the economy where private companies are competing with each other for contracts with the public sector (care providers are one example). Suppliers are winning contracts by paying lower wages than their competitors (and deluding themselves into believing that they are therefore viable and competitive), but they are exposing themselves to the risk that their workforce won't turn out to be very committed to either the work, or the interests of service users, or the interests of the public sector clients.

As long as "the benefits of competitive tendering / market forces" remains a mantra of the politicians, things will get worse - and more and more low-paid jobs will remain unattractive to the people the politicians want to get back into work.

 

[BigGully]

I suggest you read up about him, he has and does do a lot of work with children and is more than just a "bad poet". Your post kind of says it all really.

He's got the easiest gig in town, probably publicly funded too.

So please tell me what this ex thief has to offer children other than his 'bad poems'

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Seriously what kind of role model do you think he is and to who ??

I'd go further and say he is a role model for those who have made mistakes in their lives.

I thought this was pretty clear from my fairly explicite post. In case you did not understand my claim, I have reproduced it here and bolded the pertinent section.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As long as "the benefits of competitive tendering / market forces" remains a mantra of the politicians, things will get worse - and more and more low-paid jobs will remain unattractive to the people the politicians want to get back into work.

This.

 

[Nibble]

He's got the easiest gig in town, probably publicly funded too.

So please tell me what this ex thief has to offer children other than his 'bad poems'

Follow the wikipedia link and decide for yourself.

 

[BigGully]

I thought this was pretty clear from my fairly explicite post. In case you did not understand my claim, I have reproduced it here and bolded the pertinent section.

Burglaring someone's house, is a mistake too far.

Put it bold for you.

 

[Nibble]

Burglaring someone's house, is a mistake too far.

Put it bold for you.

Okay, so after he served his time and was clearly rehabilitated what do you suggest he should have done? Spent the rest of his life in a negative state for the mistake he made as a youth or do you think he may have done the right thing and turned his life around and helped others? Just like to know what your life plan is for people who pay their debt and don't become career criminals?

 

[BigGully]

Okay, so after he served his time and was clearly rehabilitated what do you suggest he should have done? Spent the rest of his life in a negative state for the mistake he made as a youth or do you think he may have done the right thing and turned his life around and helped others? Just like to know what your life plan is for people who pay their debt and don't become career criminals?

If you had followed my point, it was the absurdity of making him some kind of role model.

You say 'he turned his life round', so he stopped being a burglar !!!!

You can swoon all you want, but I wont.