Poppies

[User removed 4]

to be fair it is easy to say something like this in our situation, however if you were living in some god forsaken village on a mountain in pakistan, or a mudhut in chad for example, would you not try your hardest to make a better life for yourself? Yes i am sure they could move to somewhere more advantagious within their own country, but its like saying you are moving from peckham to crawley, one shit area to a better but still shit area.
I know if i was one of them i would do anything to get to somewhere like the UK, which is a soft case and gives out money/accomidation/work willy nilly. You cant blame the people who want to move here, you have to blame the government for making the UK so attractive for immigration. Remember we are the last stop before hitting the atlantic, thus meaning more money that immigrants have to spend to get here in the first place. If conditions were right i am sure most of them would rather stop in Germany or France or Italy etc etc, but they actually take a hard approach, unlike us.

Fair enough , but when they do get here , they should stop complaining about our troops and shut the f*** up then.

 

[Common as Mook]

So as not to come across like a geeky know-it-all sixth former.

.

There is plenty of hypocrisy on this board, but when it comes to you, this takes the f***ing biscuit!

FYI - I have stated throughout the thread, and in my original response that I agreed with a lot of what he said. I have argued with Bushy plenty of times about this and I have made my position perfectly clear. It's the manner in which this comes across that irks me most. The sweeping generalisations about an entire Mulsim community is the froth and dribble.

Thanks for the polite and measured response though

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

likes a beer and women

Were these interview questions?

 

[portlock seagull]

Fair enough , but when they do get here , they should stop complaining about our troops and shut the f*** up then.

It is possible to be muslim and born in the UK!

 

[Acker79]

Er, can you tell me whereabouts in Pakistan or Bangladesh fits that description ?Afghanistan maybe, but if you are unable to return home due to the Taliban surely you'd be supporting British troops there ,unless you support the taliban but just prefer to do it from the comfort of a house in the decadent west.

Are those the only two countries that muslims come from? What about iraq at various points in the past ten years? Are you supposed to stop being annoyed that your family and friends have been bombed because your former home is no longer a warzone?

People are complex, with multiple allegiances due to a variety of reasons. Maybe you don't like the rulers of a country, but like the people, or some of the people, and will be upset with the indiscriminate carpet bombing of your country. Maybe you will hold a special place in your heart for where you grew up while living somewhere else, and feel torn that your new home is fighting with your old home. You can't always just pick a side.

I'm not excusing the people who hate on the poppy and armed forces just to be upsetting, or antagonising. I just don't agree that it's a simple case of "you live here now, support everything we do wholeheartedly, and stop having any feelings whatsoever for where you come from, where you've been and/or the people you've left behind".

 

[User removed 4]

Were these interview questions?

No, it became obvious at the pub.

 

[User removed 4]

It is possible to be muslim and born in the UK!

That is obvious, however we were referring to refugees, do keep up.

 

[portlock seagull]

That is obvious, however we were referring to refugees, do keep up.

Ow sorry, it's just that some who don't like poppies are white and born here if that fits into your stero-typing? Sorry if not!

 

[User removed 4]

Are those the only two countries that muslims come from? What about iraq at various points in the past ten years? Are you supposed to stop being annoyed that your family and friends have been bombed because your former home is no longer a warzone?

People are complex, with multiple allegiances due to a variety of reasons. Maybe you don't like the rulers of a country, but like the people, or some of the people, and will be upset with the indiscriminate carpet bombing of your country. Maybe you will hold a special place in your heart for where you grew up while living somewhere else, and feel torn that your new home is fighting with your old home. You can't always just pick a side.

I'm not excusing the people who hate on the poppy and armed forces just to be upsetting, or antagonising. I just don't agree that it's a simple case of "you live here now, support everything we do wholeheartedly, and stop having any feelings whatsoever for where you come from, where you've been and/or the people you've left behind".

No, however they are the two countries that the majority of Muslims in the UK come from, as to your point about Iraq, perhaps if you are that annoyed at British forces, then Britain is not the most sensible choice to claim asylum ? Perhaps one of the many countries that are transit points on the way here would have been a better choice ?

 

[User removed 4]

Ow sorry, it's just that some who don't like poppies are white and born here if that fits into your stero-typing? Sorry if not!

What on earth has this got to do with my answer to your original post ?

 

[the right footed denilson]

Are you being serious? No embroidery prior to 2001?

What the f*** was the Bayeux Tapestry then? A massive iron-on transfer?

So funny.f***ing Daily Mail.

Am i the only one who reads these binfests and wonders what exactly is being argued about? Time after time these mass debates fire up and it's just people arguing for the sake of arguing.
Still, wouldn't be NSC without them.

 

[Acker79]

No, however they are the two countries that the majority of Muslims in the UK come from, as to your point about Iraq, perhaps if you are that annoyed at British forces, then Britain is not the most sensible choice to claim asylum ? Perhaps one of the many countries that are transit points on the way here would have been a better choice ?

And the people who claimed asylum before the invasion? The people who aren't claiming asylum but are here contributing to the economy while making a better life for themselves? The people who are here because their careers brought them here (research jobs for example where the position only exists here)

The majority of muslims I've met come from turkey and cyprus.

 

[User removed 4]

And the people who claimed asylum before the invasion? The people who aren't claiming asylum but are here contributing to the economy while making a better life for themselves? The people who are here because their careers brought them here (research jobs for example where the position only exists here)

All the above can like it or lump it as far as i'm concerned , if you want to complain about what we do or dont do, f*** off and do it somewhere else, if i came to your house through choice because i either had nowhere else to go or i was doing some work there , and started telling you what you should or shouldnt be doing , or how badly you had treated my relatives you would quite rightly tell me to f*** off, i dont see any difference with the above.

 

[Acker79]

All the above can like it or lump it as far as i'm concerned , if you want to complain about what we do or dont do, f*** off and do it somewhere else, if i came to your house through choice because i either had nowhere else to go or i was doing some work there , and started telling you what you should or shouldnt be doing , or how badly you had treated my relatives you would quite rightly tell me to f*** off, i dont see any difference with the above.

And if I died and everyone was bigging me up telling the world how wonderful I was, would you fall in line with them just because you got to stay/work at my house while I abused your family?

 

[User removed 4]

And if I died and everyone was bigging me up telling the world how wonderful I was, would you fall in line with them just because you got to stay/work at my house while I abused your family?

I wouldnt be at your house if you abused my family, thats the point.

 

[Acker79]

I wouldnt be at your house if you abused my family, thats the point.

When you boil it down to something so simple as you living in my house and me directly insulting your family, it is simple.

But when you bring it back to what it is; living in another country, run by elected people and not belonging to any one person (unlike my house), living in that country to provide a better life for you and your immediate family, and for the future for your children, instead of just living in my house, it isn't so simple. When it's not the owner of the house insulting the rest of your family, but a government that might not be there next month, or next year, acting contrary to many of the country's own people, indiscriminately bombing your old country killing the people you may think deserve killing, but also killing people you know don't deserve it. It's not so simple. It's no so easy to just leave.

 

[User removed 4]

When you boil it down to something so simple as you living in my house and me directly insulting your family, it is simple.

But when you bring it back to what it is; living in another country, run by elected people and not belonging to any one person (unlike my house), living in that country to provide a better life for you and your immediate family, and for the future for your children, instead of just living in my house, it isn't so simple. When it's not the owner of the house insulting the rest of your family, but a government that might not be there next month, or next year, acting contrary to many of the country's own people, indiscriminately bombing your old country killing the people you may think deserve killing, but also killing people you know don't deserve it. It's not so simple. It's no so easy to just leave.

Sorry but i dont agree with a single word, if someone doesnt like us or what we do, then they should be be big enough to f*** off somewhere else, in fact we should ensure they f*** off somewhere else.

 

[Acker79]

Sorry but i dont agree with a single word, if someone doesnt like us or what we do, then they should be be big enough to f*** off somewhere else, in fact we should ensure they f*** off somewhere else.

The problem with that idea is the phrase 'us and what we do'. Who is 'us'? The country is a free and democratic one, with a variety of opinions of the wars and which ones we should be fighting, and all sorts of dissenting opinions on all sorts of topics. "We" removed from power the government that took us into war with iraq. When "we" don't agree with that war, why should the immigrants whose country of birth was invaded? When "we" argue that our troops shouldn't be in various wars in various countries, why should immigrants be forced to stand up for them against the wishes of (a significant portion of) 'us'? When "we" are criticising the government and the country for it's poilicies, why should immigrants have to keep quiet or defend them?

 

[User removed 4]

The problem with that idea is the phrase 'us and what we do'. Who is 'us'? The country is a free and democratic one, with a variety of opinions of the wars and which ones we should be fighting, and all sorts of dissenting opinions on all sorts of topics. "We" removed from power the government that took us into war with iraq. When "we" don't agree with that war, why should the immigrants whose country of birth was invaded? When "we" argue that our troops shouldn't be in various wars in various countries, why should immigrants be forced to stand up for them against the wishes of (a significant portion of) 'us'? When "we" are criticising the government and the country for it's poilicies, why should immigrants have to keep quiet or defend them?

they shouldnt but dont do it at my expense , while you're a guest in my country.

 

[Acker79]

they shouldnt but dont do it at my expense , while you're a guest in my country.

Which brings us back to my earlier point about this country not belonging to any one person. It's as much my country as it is yours, if they were to agree with you, maybe they would then be disagreeing with me*, and isn't rude of them coming into my country and disagreeing with me?!


*Again, I stress, I'm not saying I agree with people who burn poppies, I'm speaking now in more general terms (whether wars are just, government policy etc).