Poppies

[PaoloRossiJohnson]

it seems like the last few years we are all over the top about it. The whole England team thing seemed completely over the top (according to football weekly England have never worn poppies in 37 competitive friendlies at the beginning of November - Football Weekly).
As Barry and Jimbo say have we all gone stark raving bonkers or is there something else?

Indeed.

And as James Richardson also said on the FW podcast, some people have been going more "over the top" about this issue than the very people they are supposed to be remembering...!!

 

[Buzzer]

Her husband wasn't royal when he fought, he hadnt even met her

Yes he was, he was Danish/Greek royalty and arguably a lot more German than the Queen's family. They met before the war at a relative's wedding and were penpals throughout.

And the fact that the Queen's Family had a German surname is completely irrelevant and just racism on your part. The British monarchy has been ruled by a British-born person since 1761. Is that not British enough for you? I'd guess that there are lots and lots of people who fought for our country with European relatives who fought against the British at some time or other. Are you equally hypocritical about them or is it just a class thing with you?

 

[jakarta]

Fair point, and WW2 a difficult war to argue against. The point is that remembrance sunday should be that, not a recruiting drive or a jingoistic day. Dont forget what and who it is that you remembering

What Remembrance Day represents is surely up to the individual - in my case it is the loss of my late Grandfather (posted elsewhere) who was a casualty that came back but the conflict had destroyed him and also my late Father in Law, also a veteran but happily managed to have a wonderfully productive and community serving life as an Engineer, Artist and Local Politician after the War.

I don't think the Poppy has anything to do with recruitment, you either want an Armed Forces Career or you don't.

I do not begrudge a penny of my money going to ex-servicemen via the British Legion however.

 

[Working class pride]

Point well made and taken Newhaven Gull about cheap shots.
PMB - I meant British "royal" (if there is such a thing of one persons majesty over another)
the only point I am really trying to make is that when ~I was a kid, it did seem about remembrance, but that may also have been because more were alive. I knew an infantryman that never watched the cenotaph or went to a service.i couldnt understand it when I was a kid, but I think I do now. People seem to enjoy it, and that really misses the point, its not or should not be entertainment.

 

[newhaven seagull 85]

Point well made and taken Newhaven Gull about cheap shots.
PMB - I meant British "royal" (if there is such a thing of one persons majesty over another)
the only point I am really trying to make is that when ~I was a kid, it did seem about remembrance, but that may also have been because more were alive. I knew an infantryman that never watched the cenotaph or went to a service.i couldnt understand it when I was a kid, but I think I do now. People seem to enjoy it, and that really misses the point, its not or should not be entertainment.

and entertainment like x-factor or strictly should not highjack the poppy by wearing bigger (look at me wearing a poppy)poppies.simple is ample

 

[Buzzer]

People seem to enjoy it, and that really misses the point, its not or should not be entertainment.

Honestly, I don't know anyone who 'enjoys' it. I can't be sure but just reading your posts on here, I'd say it's less about respecting people's ways of honouring the war dead and more about you ranting about the establishment generally. I was in Trafalgar Square on Friday when the widow of Olaf Schmid read the Kohima epitaph. Who are you to say she or the British Legion are wrong in holding such ceremonies?

 

[Commander]

Kind of see wearing a poppy as just showing people you've given to charity, it doesn't matter if you wear one or don't only if you've given some money for the poppy appeal

I disagree. The main reason I wear a poppy is because I want the people who fought for our freedoms to know that I appreciate what they did, and that I will never forget it. That is a bigger reason than giving a bit of money to their charity in my book.

 

[Don Quixote]

Yes he was, he was Danish/Greek royalty and arguably a lot more German than the Queen's family. They met before the war at a relative's wedding and were penpals throughout.

And the fact that the Queen's Family had a German surname is completely irrelevant and just racism on your part. The British monarchy has been ruled by a British-born person since 1761. Is that not British enough for you? I'd guess that there are lots and lots of people who fought for our country with European relatives who fought against the British at some time or other. Are you equally hypocritical about them or is it just a class thing with you?

They haven't been English since Richard III

 

[BadFish]

People who dont wear a POPPY or remember the day DO NOT deserve to be in this GREAT COUNTRY of ours

That is exactly the over the top hyped up attitude i am talking about. Have you always felt like that or is it a new thing in the last five to ten years?

 

[User removed 4]

*Deep Breath*

Okay so here is my question.

Why does everyone suddenly seem to be so up in arms about poppies?
Don't get me wrong I wear one every year and used to go to the burma star ceremony with my granddad and agree with the sentiment.

But! it seems like the last few years we are all over the top about it. The whole England team thing seemed completely over the top (according to football weekly England have never worn poppies in 37 competitive friendlies at the beginning of November - Football Weekly). Last year i remember outrage because someone didn't wear a poppy o the telly.

I just don't remember the country being so incensed about it. You wore your poppy or you didn't. So what is going on?

As Barry and Jimbo say have we all gone stark raving bonkers or is there something else?

Because it isnt until recently that we've had a sizeable minority of people that are demonstrably antagonistic towards british service personnel, it's what happens when large sections of the muslim community have little or no interaction with the host country ,and see themselves as having more in common with and loyalty to a fellow muslim in iraq or afghanistan, unpalatable as it may be to those of you who continue to persist in the myth that we live in one joyful multicultural melting pot, huge swathes of immigrant communities have settled here and created mini versions of the country they came from, retaining their lifestyle,traditions and language,just with the added benefit of the welfare state and minimal contact with the local population.
I'm just waiting for the predictable response about expat brits in spain , well at least the spanish dont have their government and state broadcaster regularly extolling the virtues of the british community and the massive contribution they make to spanish life, and i cant remember the last time there was a pro gibraltar march through marbella.
As for wearing a poppy, like a previous poster said , it SHOWS you care , all the mealy mouthed comments like " I contribute but choose not to wear a poppy" are a cop out, either be up front about buying and wearing a poppy, and the reasons behind it , or do the reverse , and have the balls to say why you dont.

 

[User removed 4]

Yes he was, he was Danish/Greek royalty and arguably a lot more German than the Queen's family. They met before the war at a relative's wedding and were penpals throughout.

And the fact that the Queen's Family had a German surname is completely irrelevant and just racism on your part. The British monarchy has been ruled by a British-born person since 1761. Is that not British enough for you? I'd guess that there are lots and lots of people who fought for our country with European relatives who fought against the British at some time or other. Are you equally hypocritical about them or is it just a class thing with you?

We should remember the tremendous contribution of the Queen Mother to the war effort: as the BBC has pointed out, she 'bravely remained in London beside her husband' during the war. This contrasts sharply with the actions of my grandfather who, on the declaration of war immediately left his wife and children and f***ed off, first to France, then North Africa, Italy, France (again) and finally Germany.
The shame will always be with us.

 

[Common as Mook]

Because it isnt until recently that we've had a sizeable minority of people that are demonstrably antagonistic towards british service personnel, it's what happens when large sections of the muslim community have little or no interaction with the host country ,and see themselves as having more in common with and loyalty to a fellow muslim in iraq or afghanistan, unpalatable as it may be to those of you who continue to persist in the myth that we live in one joyful multicultural melting pot, huge swathes of immigrant communities have settled here and created mini versions of the country they came from, retaining their lifestyle,traditions and language,just with the added benefit of the welfare state and minimal contact with the local population.
I'm just waiting for the predictable response about expat brits in spain , well at least the spanish dont have their government and state broadcaster regularly extolling the virtues of the british community and the massive contribution they make to spanish life, and i cant remember the last time there was a pro gibraltar march through marbella.
As for wearing a poppy, like a previous poster said , it SHOWS you care , all the mealy mouthed comments like " I contribute but choose not to wear a poppy" are a cop out, either be up front about buying and wearing a poppy, and the reasons behind it , or do the reverse , and have the balls to say why you dont.

Through your usual dribble and frothing you actually make some valid points.

However, for me, the overarching reason why it has become so important is because as a generation, we have experienced persistent war unlike no generation since WW2. That is why people feel a lot more passionately about it.

The fact that we are fighting Muslim nations is also a factor. Islam is one of teh mroe passionate and devout religions in the world, and therefore provokes a more passioned defense.

 

[User removed 4]

Through your usual dribble and frothing you actually make some valid points.

However, for me, the overarching reason why it has become so important is because as a generation, we have experienced persistent war unlike no generation since WW2. That is why people feel a lot more passionately about it.

The fact that we are fighting Muslim nations is also a factor. Islam is one of teh mroe passionate and devout religions in the world, and therefore provokes a more passioned defense.

Which parts of the post are "dribble and frothing" , seriously , i'm interested.

 

[Common as Mook]

Which parts of the post are "dribble and frothing" , seriously , i'm interested.

Sweeping generalisations more than anything else. It's far easier for you to do this than to actual give any rational thought to the issue.

As far as your concerned the ONLY reason why Poppies are such an issue nowadays is purely because of the inability of the Muslim community to integrate. That's the frothing and dribble.

 

[User removed 4]

Sweeping generalisations more than anything else. It's far easier for you to do this than to actual give any rational thought to the issue.

As far as your concerned the ONLY reason why Poppies are such an issue nowadays is purely because of the inability of the Muslim community to integrate. That's the frothing and dribble.

So I make some valid points , but the bits that are a bit close to home are frothing and dribble ? I'd be interested to know which points you think are valid. I'd also be interested to know if you've always lived in sussex as a muslim who has obviously integrated or have you ever lived as part of a larger group of miuslims as a majority in a particular area ? I'd bet you haven't . Plus, it's not just the muslim community, i've worked with africans who are very open about their lack of any loyalty to this country and laughed when asked would they fight for this country in a war situation.

 

[bobby smith]

That is exactly the over the top hyped up attitude i am talking about. Have you always felt like that or is it a new thing in the last five to ten years?

My Grandfather fought in the battle of FLANDERS so what do you think

 

[Common as Mook]

So I make some valid points , but the bits that are a bit close to home are frothing and dribble ? I'd be interested to know which points you think are valid. I'd also be interested to know if you've always lived in sussex as a muslim who has obviously integrated or have you ever lived as part of a larger group of miuslims as a majority in a particular area ? I'd bet you haven't .

I'm not a Muslim. Stop making assumptions. My family has Muslim heritage, but that doesn't make me a follower of Islam.

I have lived in Sussex, for the majority of my life, Brixton, Tooting, Kilburn and Devon. Is this OK??

 

[User removed 4]

I'm not a Muslim. Stop making assumptions. My family has Muslim heritage, but that doesn't make me a follower of Islam.

I have lived in Sussex, for the majority of my life, Brixton, Tooting, Kilburn and Devon. Is this OK??

It was a genuine question , not meant as a barb, but you're still misunderstanding it whether or not deliberately i dont know.

 

[Common as Mook]

It was a genuine question , not meant as a barb, but you're still misunderstanding it whether or not deliberately i dont know.

A geuine question with misfounded merits.

You are still ignoring my ascertation that you believe that the actions of the Muslim community are the only reason why the wearing of a poppy is such a passionate issue at the moment. As a former serviceman I thought you may have had more of an idea of the motives that stem people onto wearing one. Care to comment on my thoughts as to why it's such an emotive issue or do you want to keep banging the Islamophobic drum?

I wear one with pride btw. (not that it matters one jot to this argument - just thought I'd mention it).

 

[User removed 4]

A geuine question with misfounded merits.

You are still ignoring my ascertation that you believe that the actions of the Muslim community are the only reason why the wearing of a poppy is such a passionate issue at the moment. As a former serviceman I thought you may have had more of an idea of the motives that stem people onto wearing one. Care to comment on my thoughts as to why it's such an emotive issue or do you want to keep banging the Islamophobic drum?

I wear one with pride btw. (not that it matters one jot to this argument - just thought I'd mention it).

Sorry but I'm not going to change my view just to keep you happy, the poppy is such a passionate issue at the moment because we are or have been involved involved in two wars , both against states with a majority muslim population, and it's the first time that a large section of the community have shown such visible antagonism towards our service personnel, the reason being that this large section of the community feel more in common with fellow muslims in iraq or afghanistan, and whether people like it or not, the poppy has become politicised, a lot of people do wear one to show support for present day troops,very,very rarely will you see a black or asian wearing one , that's my view , whats yours ?