Number of Deaths

[dazzer6666]

I don't think that's how it works...

Also to consider, the 'usual' death rate, i.e. people that 'are likely to have died anyway' is massively down due to people staying at home. Less car crashes, less people falling off ladders, etc. So that would make the increase of deaths right now even more significant.

Lastly - the majority of people we've seen die from Covid have turned and detonated very quickly - you think there's a huge number of cases of people that also have cancer and it's the cancer that has suddenly killed them rather than the very potent virus that is following the same timeline in them that we see with other people. I think that's a huge stretch and the numbers are likely incredibly minimal and barely relevant, for 'dying WITH covid'. No offense to you personally but I think it's complete bullshit being pushed to minimize the effect of the virus.

Ok, will let my eldest know who I’ve been discussing this with today..........she’s currently on a night shift in a DME ward full of Covid +ve patients in a general hospital. If you think the ‘with’ numbers are ‘incredibly minimal’ then good for you, but they’re not. I’m not going to argue - I’m not ‘pushing’ anything, just interpreting facts.

Who said a huge number ? It’s a proportion of a relatively (still) small % of total deaths. I’m not trying to minimise the Covid numbers -they are terrible - just explaining perspective. Cancer was simply an example.....many have a variety of underlying conditions.

 

[beorhthelm]

Again, speculation. How can you possibly tell how many were going to die at this time without it!?
It is exactly this type of hype that causes people to not care about social distancing, causes people to think "oh its not that bad they all would have dies anyway". It is dangerous and not based on any facts and is wild speculation.
I am done with this bullshit today.

please take a day off. the numbers where presented to you and you chose to read some else than was said. no one is saying its not bad, just giving context that its not armegeddon either. we are managing to control things.

 

[Raphael Meade]

Ok, will let my eldest know who I’ve been discussing this with today..........she’s currently on a night shift in a DME ward full of Covid +ve patients in a general hospital. If you think the ‘with’ numbers are ‘incredibly minimal’ then good for you, but they’re not. I’m not going to argue - I’m not ‘pushing’ anything, just interpreting facts.

Who said a huge number ? It’s a proportion of a relatively (still) small % of total deaths. I’m not trying to minimise the Covid numbers -they are terrible - just explaining perspective. Cancer was simply an example.....many have a variety of underlying conditions.

Very fair response and think we just differ in opinion. All the best to your eldest as they work through this!

 

[Weststander]

I don't think that's how it works...

Also to consider, the 'usual' death rate, i.e. people that 'are likely to have died anyway' is massively down due to people staying at home. Less car crashes, less people falling off ladders, etc. So that would make the increase of deaths right now even more significant.

Lastly - the majority of people we've seen die from Covid have turned and detonated very quickly - you think there's a huge number of cases of people that also have cancer and it's the cancer that has suddenly killed them rather than the very potent virus that is following the same timeline in them that we see with other people. I think that's a huge stretch and the numbers are likely incredibly minimal and barely relevant, for 'dying WITH covid'. No offense to you personally but I think it's complete bullshit being pushed to minimize the effect of the virus.

It’s the complete opposite, the UK daily death totals announced comprehensively include every possible hospital COVID19 death, even where people had days or hours to live from other conditions. Belt and braces, all treated as COVID19 deaths. Some other countries such as Germany do the same.

See the opening lines.


There really is no conspiratorial downplaying of COVID19 hospital deaths.

Well over 10,000 Brits die a week anyway, sometimes far higher in the flu season, so obviously some of these would now be dying with COVID19. The UK system treats them all as COVID19 deaths, where they’ve tested positive.

 

[darkwolf666]

It’s the complete opposite, the UK daily death totals announced comprehensively include every possible hospital COVID19 death, even where people had days or hours to live from other conditions. Belt and braces, all treated as COVID19 deaths. Some other countries such as Germany do the same.

See the opening lines.
View attachment 121891

There really is no conspiratorial downplaying of COVID19 hospital deaths.

Well over 10,000 Brits die a week anyway, sometimes far higher in the flu season, so obviously some of these would now be dying with COVID19. The UK system treats them all as COVID19 deaths, where they’ve tested positive.

Or was suspected. It’s still not as clear as “tested positive”.

 

[dazzer6666]

Or was suspected. It’s still not as clear as “tested positive”.

Quite - so the Covid stats are most likely overstated......

 

[darkwolf666]

Does anyone know if there any statistics on the ethnicity of those that have tested positive and or died from Covid-19.

There appear to be concerns in America that large percentages of Black Americans are being recorded as victims, but it appears the inference is this is due to their housing conditions.

It would be interesting to see the evidence from European countries that may have different housing situations.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Hyping the "it is not that severe" line of thought.

"Hyping"

I'm stating that there are seasonally 1,600 deaths, at the moment there are around 700 COVID-19 related deaths, I'm ASKING how many "other deaths" there were and whether SOME of the COVID deaths would have ordinarily happened within the 1,600 at this time of year through "underlying medical conditions", where have I "hyped" in any way, shape or form? You really don't get the question, do you?

 

[WilburySeagull]

I wish people on here would read or reread the "be kind" thread on NSC. The aggressive tone of some replies is particularly distressing when you are talking about deaths. These are not just statistics we are talking about they are someone's mum or dad lr brother or sister. Please remember that

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

I wish people on here would read or reread the "be kind" thread on NSC. The aggressive tone of some replies is particularly distressing when you are talking about deaths. These are not just statistics we are talking about they are someone's mum or dad lr brother or sister. Please remember that

Please could I ask you read the full thread, this whole question, I feel, was raised by me in a very respectful way, the sharpness of my recent replies are a reaction to a poster whom I consider to be either a troll or someone who cannot grasp the concept of reasonable debate, that said, my apologies if my posts have caused any offence to you whatsoever. #bekind #staysafe

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Just because I disagree with your wording about the press sensationlising the number deaths does not mean I am a troll!

You win, I give up.

 

[Machiavelli]

Does anyone know if there any statistics on the ethnicity of those that have tested positive and or died from Covid-19.

There appear to be concerns in America that large percentages of Black Americans are being recorded as victims, but it appears the inference is this is due to their housing conditions.

It would be interesting to see the evidence from European countries that may have different housing situations.

That will be the key criteria behind it but what's striking is that we can no longer address this differential issue through the notion of class -- or some related category -- even though this will capture a far larger social group that are adversely affected through CV. Of course, BMEs will be disproportionately included within the working/lower/etc class grouping, but the way reporting and analysis of society is conducted by the media (and the BBC is really guilty of this) is far more through 'ethnic' rather than 'class' categories. This, in turn, causes the 'white working class' to get all upset about 'media bias'/chattering classes/metropolitan elites, whereas an analysis that put class more central would be able to demonstrate that there's far more commonality between the 'white working class' and the 'BME working class' than is currently recognised.

 

[Raphael Meade]

I had stepped out of this thread so just presenting this without comment, but to say that the "they died with corona, not because of it" narrative has been stepped up in a major way today by US right wing press in what looks an awful lot like a coordinated move to downplay death stats.

Both worth reading/watching;

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...s-about-coronavirus-deaths-being-exaggerated/

https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status/1247948603059994628

 

[Thunder Bolt]

15 people dead in one care home in Luton.

 

[RossyG]

I really struggle with this logic. Do people who think this also think the death toll of something like 9/11 was exaggerated as some of them had other health issues at the time? It is truly bizarre logic and extremely dangerous.

I think you just struggle with logic. What has the dying with/of CV question got to do with thousands dying in collapsing buildings or plane crashes?

Nurses have died OF Coronavirus. But if someone with it is run over and killed then they died WITH it. Is it that hard to understand?

And referring to another poster, why does everything have to be reduced to right wing/left wing? We need to know how many people have had CV and how many people have been killed by the disease in order to get on top of this. It’s important yet people are reducing it to political swipes.

 

[Bodian]

No I perfectly understand that. It is the pushing of the wild theory that this somehow is inflating the number of deaths that I do not get. Like some do not count!?

After your response to my last attempt to explain, I'm not actually sure it's worth trying again. But surely you must see that there is a difference between people dying because of Covid-19, and people dying who also happen to be infected with Covid-19 (such as the example given)? If the latter is included in the 'number of covid 19 deaths' reported on the news (which it is) then, yes, that number is inflated.

 

[Bozza]

From CNN.com...

Dr. Deborah Birx and Dr. Anthony Fauci pushed back on conspiracy theories suggesting that coronavirus deaths in the US are being inflated, especially among those dying with existing underlying conditions.

“We’ve made it very clear, every time I’ve been up here, about the comorbidities,” Birx said Wednesday during the White House press briefing. “This has been known from the beginning. So those individuals will have an underlying condition but that underlying condition did not cause their acute death when it’s related to a Covid infection.”
“Having an underlying condition and getting this virus, we know, is particularly damaging to those individuals,” Birx added.

Fauci took things a step further, saying, “You will always have conspiracy theories when you have very challenging public health crises. They are nothing but distractions.”

“I would just hope that we just put those conspiracy stuff — and let somebody write a book about it later on, but not now,” he continued.

 

[Swansman]

From CNN.com...

Dr. Deborah Birx and Dr. Anthony Fauci pushed back on conspiracy theories suggesting that coronavirus deaths in the US are being inflated, especially among those dying with existing underlying conditions.

“We’ve made it very clear, every time I’ve been up here, about the comorbidities,” Birx said Wednesday during the White House press briefing. “This has been known from the beginning. So those individuals will have an underlying condition but that underlying condition did not cause their acute death when it’s related to a Covid infection.”
“Having an underlying condition and getting this virus, we know, is particularly damaging to those individuals,” Birx added.

Fauci took things a step further, saying, “You will always have conspiracy theories when you have very challenging public health crises. They are nothing but distractions.”

“I would just hope that we just put those conspiracy stuff — and let somebody write a book about it later on, but not now,” he continued.

Sounds like a clever boy with the right attitude. As a tin foil hat wearer I definitely agree with his last sentence. There will be a day where its possible and even sound to discuss the virus from a "where did it really come from / what was it meant to do" perspective, but that time isnt now - full focus on solving the issue.

 

[yxee]

No I perfectly understand that. It is the pushing of the wild theory that this somehow is inflating the number of deaths that I do not get. Like some do not count!?

Because people interpret the death count as the cost of coronavirus, and that interpretation is not consistent with how it is counted.

 

[darkwolf666]

15 people dead in one care home in Luton.

This has brought up a strange new issues too. The initial thought obviously is that all 15 have died of COVID-19, which would seems reasonable.

But having read this article it is clear that only 5 have been registered as COVID-19 deaths, as the care home has been told by Public Health England - "In occasions where some cases have already been tested positive in a care home, we do not advise testing of new cases as it will not change the public health management."

So what they are doing is effectively manipulating the figures down! Why? Granted testing the dead isn't going to bring them back, but at least it could give a better understanding of the true magnitude of the outbreak...!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52175891