[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[London Irish]

Kinnock paved the way for John Smith, Brian Gould, Dewar, Blair, Brown and co, in making Labour electable again.

Let’s carry on with the losing Momentum formula forever. McDonnell, Lansman and Long-Bailey feeling rather smug with themselves that they have the reins, rather than those awful centre-left dissidents Harman, Kinnock jnr, Benn, Hodge, Alan Johnson.

So losing elections over and over again is fine for you as long as you see it reaching some other purpose? You think Kinnock doing that for 9 years is fine? But the left doesn't even get 4?

What you deride as the Momentun formula gained 3 million votes in 2017, the highest jump in the Labour vote since 1945, raising a vote that has been on the decline since 1997.

Everyone knows Labour were screwed this time not by the policies which all polling shows are popular but by needing both its Remain voters and its Leave voters to combine. What leader and what policy on Brexit could possible have done that? I'm all ears if you have an honest answer

 

[London Irish]

Deluded.

He's actually put forward good arguments there. So good you can't even debate them it seems

 

[Super Steve Earle]

This is an important - and relevant graph -

Great graph. Clearly demonstrates how naive younger people, who have never worked while a Labour government is in power, just blindly follow the Labour rhetoric and are being fooled like people of my generation were by Blair.

 

[Hastings gull]

So losing elections over and over again is fine for you as long as you see it reaching some other purpose? You think Kinnock doing that for 9 years is fine? But the left doesn't even get 4?

What you deride as the Momentun formula gained 3 million votes in 2017, the highest jump in the Labour vote since 1945, raising a vote that has been on the decline since 1997.

Everyone knows Labour were screwed this time not by the policies which all polling shows are popular but by needing both its Remain voters

In isolation, I am sure that the policies such as free Broadband and a freebie check-up at the dentist, might have been "popular" but put together at such an incredible cost and you have another strong reason why labour lost. You would have to be really naïve to believe that the cost of all the freebies and the nationalisations would be borne by a small minority - it is blindingly obvious, given such figures, that everyone would get clobbered.

 

[Hastings gull]

Great graph. Clearly demonstrates how naive younger people, who have never worked while a Labour government is in power, just blindly follow the Labour rhetoric and are being fooled like people of my generation were by Blair.

Isn't there some saying that up to the age of 25, you vote with your heart and then as you get older, with your head. Young people want a better world (don't we all?) and are easily swept along with Corbyn, who promises them everything, but as you say, they do not have the experience of life that older folks have. That said, we should always listen to younger voters, who do have some refreshing ideas, but a balance has to be struck.

 

[blue-shifted]

Only if you plan to exterminate the over 50s.

It might not be the worst idea ......

sorry, didn't mean that

 

[Chicken Run]

So losing elections over and over again is fine for you as long as you see it reaching some other purpose? You think Kinnock doing that for 9 years is fine? But the left doesn't even get 4?

What you deride as the Momentun formula gained 3 million votes in 2017, the highest jump in the Labour vote since 1945, raising a vote that has been on the decline since 1997.

Everyone knows Labour were screwed this time not by the policies which all polling shows are popular but by needing both its Remain voters and its Leave voters to combine. What leader and what policy on Brexit could possible have done that? I'm all ears if you have an honest answer

Ohhhhh Jeremy Corbyn thought he could , TWICE [emoji23]

 

[Weststander]

So losing elections over and over again is fine for you as long as you see it reaching some other purpose? You think Kinnock doing that for 9 years is fine? But the left doesn't even get 4?

What you deride as the Momentun formula gained 3 million votes in 2017, the highest jump in the Labour vote since 1945, raising a vote that has been on the decline since 1997.

Everyone knows Labour were screwed this time not by the policies which all polling shows are popular but by needing both its Remain voters and its Leave voters to combine. What leader and what policy on Brexit could possible have done that? I'm all ears if you have an honest answer

But when countless working class voters were interviewed on BBC TV/radio in the last few weeks and months, as well as the feedback to Labour MPs when canvassing, over and over again they also cited a distrust of Corbyn and McDonnell, of the remote London dominant leadership, of anti semitism, that the manifesto ‘budget’ was not credible, and concerns over security. If you watched/listened to any of the BBC’s tour around the UK in the autumn, you’d seen these as recurring themes from ordinary folk, as well as Brexit.

Polling consistently around the 30% mark, and borne out in the poll that counted. Handing 5 years to Boris.

 

[Dr Bandler]

How many elections did Kinnock lose to the Tories again?

That is irrelevant to the point - which is that he made Labour electable again for those who came after. But I am sure you know that. (There are many of us who couldn't believe he lost to John Major - what a triumph for the gutter press).

It would be exciting to see somone like that emerge again to root out the deluded left (of which you appear to be a part).

 

[blue-shifted]

It would be a mistake to hold on to that statistic. People change their voting as they get older. The current crop of 18-25s will settle down, get a mortgage etc etc. I was once in the Young Socialists ! and am now moderate left (I have no problem with Nationalization although think it should happen very slowly). A lot of people have made similar points to yourself and Grizzling ******. You need to actually face the reasons you lost working class votes and a failure to do so would be unbelievably irresponsible. Stop searching for ideological purity.

I think that graph is significant.

Yes you're right, some will drift off to the Liberals or Tories as they get older and bogged down in life.

But it's the sheer scale of the young vote that is significant. I doubt the tories have ever done that badly amongst the young. If Labour keep to Corbynism, yes they'll spend a decade in the wilderness, but will come strong after that.

A few cold winters and who knows. The Tories may come to regret their social care and NHS funding policies

 

[Weststander]

I think that graph is significant.

Yes you're right, some will drift off to the Liberals or Tories as they get older and bogged down in life.

But it's the sheer scale of the young vote that is significant. I doubt the tories have ever done that badly amongst the young. If Labour keep to Corbynism, yes they'll spend a decade in the wilderness, but will come strong after that.

A few cold winters and who knows. The Tories may come to regret their social care and NHS funding policies

The Tories have never had the vote of younger voters, just a minority in those age groups.

In the meantime some people will be wishing their precious lives away, in the hope that Momentum win a general election in 2029.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

If Keir Starmer were to declare that he identified as a woman temporarily, then that would tick many of the boxes shirley? Job done

 

[Machiavelli]

Astonishing if that pans out. Burgon is awful in interviews, a charmless expert at whataboutism, he never answers a searching question, spitting bitterness, and he comes across as thick.

Shirley the party can do better than him. He’ll hand 5 more years to the Tories.

You couldn’t make up this series of own goals. Is Dominic Cummings secretly pulling the strings?

Burgon is dreadful and inept. Can't believe I've had to listen to his drivel for so long. He's a toad.

 

[Machiavelli]

This is an important - and relevant graph -

Two related questions for you (to which there are two short answers): is the over-65 category due to get bigger or smaller into the future?; is the 18-44 category due to get bigger or smaller in the near future?
If you give the right answer to these questions, you might accept that this is even more problematic for the Labour Party.

 

[Machiavelli]

I think that graph is significant.

Yes you're right, some will drift off to the Liberals or Tories as they get older and bogged down in life.

But it's the sheer scale of the young vote that is significant. I doubt the tories have ever done that badly amongst the young. If Labour keep to Corbynism, yes they'll spend a decade in the wilderness, but will come strong after that.

A few cold winters and who knows. The Tories may come to regret their social care and NHS funding policies

The other thing worth focusing on is that, unlike during the 90s and 00s, the young are now voting in more significant numbers.

 

[Weststander]

Burgon is dreadful and inept. Can't believe I've had to listen to his drivel for so long. He's a toad.

Comedy gold. At any moment, I was expecting spin doctor Malcolm Tucker to appear, to put Burgon out of his muddled pile of shit.

 

[ac gull]

Over 65 category will carry on getting bigger - folks are living longer

 

[blue-shifted]

Over 65 category will carry on getting bigger - folks are living longer

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/07/life-expectancy-slumps-by-five-months

Nope

Tory economic policy killing off their own voters

 

[Bry Nylon]

Comedy gold. At any moment, I was expecting spin doctor Malcolm Tucker to appear, to put Burgon out of his muddled pile of shit.

That is ****ing hilarious! Burgon really is a complete **** and as thick as mince.

Interviewer: "So you would go to Brussels, tell them you want to remain and ask if you can negotiate a deal to leave?"

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He's actually put forward good arguments there. So good you can't even debate them it seems

Already debated to death over the last 3 years. I'm a labour voter and want them to win. But...OK mate