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[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party



Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,097
Faversham
You know when you're doing your best to defend a mate who has done something a bit stupid, and you're doing your best to convince the person it won't happen again, and they're really all right, and then in the background they're actually doing something equally stupid behind you again... That is how it felt.

A very honest comment, and a brilliant analogy.

As a lifelong labour voter, but no longer a party member, this is how I have felt ever since Corbyn became leader (except that, since I haven't been campaigning for labour, I haven't felt the need to defend Corbyn at all).

One other comment - it is easy to forget that Milliband, not Blair, lost the first pivotal election to the tories. It was Milliband who inherited a party that had lost its way after Brown bullied Blair out of office. The party certainly looked like an empty suit at the time, with MPs aware that 'Blairism' had brought success, but only fleeting memory of how. And without Blair it all looked pallid. The MPs had no momory of the project, and how the country was supposed to edge gently to the left as more and more of the electorate lost their fear of 'socialism'. Instead it became a 'stay in power' agenda (as it always should be, but) without any actual purpose.

This is how the idea of going back to harder left ideas in a modern age suddenly appealed to a listless part of society that always hated the tories but had become bored with labour.

That isn't a good situation. Hating tories is not a great core belief. Thinking that changing listless beige labour required connecting with 1970s/80s old labour mores was an understandable knee-jerk, but it isn't a considered strategy. New Labour was extremely considered and it worked (obtained three GE wins). Corbyn labour was not considered at all.

Corbyn labour was informed by tropes. Some of those tropes were blasts from the past. A pre-Blair past of failure. As [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] points out, when the party keeps resurrecting failed tropes, some of which were buried long ago, and had decomposed, it gets beyond embarrassing. I mean, how could the old tropes about Israel, that conflate Likud with jews in general (FFS), and which went non-mainstream decades ago, and were always antisemitic, be allowed to resurface? In the labour party. Just.... shoot me in the head.

By contrast, back in the early Blair days, I always remember when some sort of Christian position was presented to labour over some issue or other (it may have been a cheeky criticism of labour's positive stance on gay marriage based on some sort of quote from the bible, I don't recall the details) and Alastair Campbell said, simply 'we don't do god'. Well, we saw later that, sadly, Blair did do god, but what a genius way to derail the cheeky agenda. After that labour never had to defend its social liberalism as a 'threat' to mainstream christianity which was never really opposed to liberalisation anyway (it being pretty liberal - too liberal for some).

At the first whiff of antisemitic trope-resurrection, McConnenl or someone (does Corbyn actually have a spin doctor? If he does he should have sacked the useless twunt 3 years ago) should have stood up and said 'we don't do racism' and booted whoever it was had gobbed off (some nobody most likely) out of the party. Instead we had the most slo-mo political car crash I have ever seen, mischievous journalists and politicians handed opportunity after opportunity to pull another bit of antisemitic poo (ranging from lame whataboutery to actual offensive comment) from the septic labour tank, while Corbyn sat on his hands and his spokespersons mumbled something about lengthy inquiries (that appear to still be going on).

And yet, it took Corbyn and chums less than a day to throw out Alastair Campbell out of the labour party. Just think about that. Alastair Campbell. He of 'we don't do go' (but we do win three general elections).

That is like Brighton having a manager who would pick Damien Hilton, 'Silky' Dave Cameron, and Leon Knight week after week, but would drop and transfer list Lewis Dunk for one missplaced backpass.

Forget all about actual policy. When you have a leader so monumentally stupid, who is there by pure chance, who has lost again and who is planning to step down, but has the temerity to think he can oversee the transfer to the next leader....FFS, he has to go now. He can't be left in charge. It is madness. Madness. I don't care what the labour constitution says. That's like invoking the legal blood alcohol limit to justify drinking continuously in order to keep the blood alcohol limit just below the legal driving limit 24 hours a day. What part of 'that's not what rules are for' don't they understand?

Apologies for the increasingly vituperative rant. I just hate slo-mo car crashes, especially when there is a bloke like Boris watching and laughing.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,097
Faversham
I look back on record NHS spending fondly. I look back on record numbers of Police and Nurses fondly. I look back at a decade of economic prosperity fondly. I look back at the Good Friday Agreement and peace in NI fondly. I look back on having a PM which wasn't an international laughing stock (like Boris, May etc)

With Iraq he did what almost any PM of the modern era would also have done.

Absolutely every UK PM.

Corbyn wouldn't have, of course. But he would never be PM, of course.

I really don't understand how some people conflate idealism and what they would like in an ideal world, with what is realistically achievable, and then charge off on the high road to nowhere, by backing people who are doomed to fail in pursuit of that ideal.

Labour 'supporters' who loath Blair......FFS. 'No compromise with the electorate'.

I am sorry, no labour supporter has the right to look back at the Blair era and sneer. It is like a Huddersfield Town supporter looking back at the Herbert Chapman era and sneering.
 




blue-shifted

Banned
Feb 20, 2004
7,645
a galaxy far far away
The next leader of TLP is irrelevant, they’ll be resigned by June 2024, let’s close this thread and open one for Next Leader but one.

No

There's enough time to turn it around.

The early signs aren't promising though
 


blue-shifted

Banned
Feb 20, 2004
7,645
a galaxy far far away
I think TB (I mean Tony Blair by the way) is still the most insightful, lucid and analytical political commentator.
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,131
Goldstone
You know when you're doing your best to defend a mate who has done something a bit stupid, and you're doing your best to convince the person it won't happen again, and they're really all right, and then in the background they're actually doing something equally stupid behind you again... That is how it felt.
Since 2015?
 


Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
19,805
Valley of Hangleton
No

There's enough time to turn it around.

The early signs aren't promising though

Yes

There’s enough time to turn it around.

The early signs aren’t promising as expected , and we are talking about the TLP who by and large collectively have no clue of their own identity or indeed the people they are representing and typically find fault and blame with everyone else but themselves, the alcoholic can only start the repair process when they first admit there’s a problem.

As I said next but one leader is relevant.
 


Hastings gull

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2013
4,652
What’s a leadership coup. The leader will be the person who gets the most votes, what are you talking about

I think you knew exactly what he was getting at. The membership has grown over the years, as loads of young militants saw their chance. Fair enough -they are entitled as much as anyone else and only took advantage of the then current rules, which I think are still in force. These same people tend to be very much of the far left, as you well now, and will presumably do their utmost to ignore all the warnings and elect another Corbynista.
 




Iggle Piggle

Well-known member
Sep 3, 2010
5,952
One other comment - it is easy to forget that Milliband, not Blair, lost the first pivotal election to the tories. It was Milliband who inherited a party that had lost its way after Brown bullied Blair out of office. The party certainly looked like an empty suit at the time, with MPs aware that 'Blairism' had brought success, but only fleeting memory of how. And without Blair it all looked pallid. The MPs had no momory of the project, and how the country was supposed to edge gently to the left as more and more of the electorate lost their fear of 'socialism'. Instead it became a 'stay in power' agenda (as it always should be, but) without any actual purpose.

The post Brown leadership election was the end of Blarism and the success that came with it. Ed Milliband was elected as leader despite not being the most talented Politician in his own family. Whilst the majority of MP's wanted David Milliband, the unions got behind Ed. They won (and then changed the voting methodology to allow Corbynism in) but the cost has been 15 years in opposition. The issue that Labour now how is the lack of reflection. It's not Corbynism at fault. It's the voters. Change the face but keep the policies and all will be right with the world. It won't be but you don't need to look far on Social media to realise most of the Corbynites have learnt nothing. More of the same is being ordered with RLB. I believe that Corbyn is more concerned with the party following his ideals than he is winning elections. That's why he is hanging about.

How different things might have been had they gone for the right brother. I doubt we'd have heard the term Brexit.
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
30,455
Hove
I think you knew exactly what he was getting at. The membership has grown over the years, as loads of young militants saw their chance. Fair enough -they are entitled as much as anyone else and only took advantage of the then current rules, which I think are still in force. These same people tend to be very much of the far left, as you well now, and will presumably do their utmost to ignore all the warnings and elect another Corbynista.

This really isn't true. You perceive it as a load of young militants, but Labour's membership is 70% over 45 year olds, mainly from ABC1 groups. This is the kind of misdirection the new Labour leader will need to address. The perception is very different from the reality.
 


Dr Bandler

Well-known member
Dec 17, 2005
550
Peterborough
I look back on record NHS spending fondly. I look back on record numbers of Police and Nurses fondly. I look back at a decade of economic prosperity fondly. I look back at the Good Friday Agreement and peace in NI fondly. I look back on having a PM which wasn't an international laughing stock (like Boris, May etc)

With Iraq he did what almost any PM of the modern era would also have done.

Will we ever see such a successful period of prime ministership and government again? I am astonished how he is reviled by some in the Labour Party. Glad I left it when they left their common sense. Sadly I think there is no way back now - Momentum has a nasty grip and there is no one with strength like Kinnock waiting in the wings to put them back in their box.
 




Two Professors

Two Mad Professors
Jul 13, 2009
7,617
Multicultural Brum
Think Labour chose the wrong Milliband,the unelectable bacon sarnie mangler.David would have told then where to stick the sandwich.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
56,097
Faversham
The post Brown leadership election was the end of Blarism and the success that came with it. Ed Milliband was elected as leader despite not being the most talented Politician in his own family. Whilst the majority of MP's wanted David Milliband, the unions got behind Ed. They won (and then changed the voting methodology to allow Corbynism in) but the cost has been 15 years in opposition. The issue that Labour now how is the lack of reflection. It's not Corbynism at fault. It's the voters. Change the face but keep the policies and all will be right with the world. It won't be but you don't need to look far on Social media to realise most of the Corbynites have learnt nothing. More of the same is being ordered with RLB. I believe that Corbyn is more concerned with the party following his ideals than he is winning elections. That's why he is hanging about.

How different things might have been had they gone for the right brother. I doubt we'd have heard the term Brexit.

110% this.
 


JJ McClure

Go Jags
Jul 7, 2003
11,105
Hassocks
Think Labour chose the wrong Milliband, the unelectable bacon sarnie mangler.David would have told then where to stick the sandwich.

Yep and all down to the union vote wasn't it?
 




Wardy's twin

Well-known member
Oct 21, 2014
8,866
The post Brown leadership election was the end of Blarism and the success that came with it. Ed Milliband was elected as leader despite not being the most talented Politician in his own family. Whilst the majority of MP's wanted David Milliband, the unions got behind Ed. They won (and then changed the voting methodology to allow Corbynism in) but the cost has been 15 years in opposition. The issue that Labour now how is the lack of reflection. It's not Corbynism at fault. It's the voters. Change the face but keep the policies and all will be right with the world. It won't be but you don't need to look far on Social media to realise most of the Corbynites have learnt nothing. More of the same is being ordered with RLB. I believe that Corbyn is more concerned with the party following his ideals than he is winning elections. That's why he is hanging about.

How different things might have been had they gone for the right brother. I doubt we'd have heard the term Brexit.

I thought it was just McCluskey who screwed David Miliband rather than the whole trade union movement. He certainly was main architect of his downfall and with it any hopes of maintaining a competitive Labour Party.
 


Papa Lazarou

Living in a De Zerbi wonderland
Jul 7, 2003
19,357
Worthing
I thought it was just McCluskey who screwed David Miliband rather than the whole trade union movement. He certainly was main architect of his downfall and with it any hopes of maintaining a competitive Labour Party.

And he's still there doing the same many years later.
 




Biscuit

Native Creative
Jul 8, 2003
22,319
Brighton
Will we ever see such a successful period of prime ministership and government again? I am astonished how he is reviled by some in the Labour Party. Glad I left it when they left their common sense. Sadly I think there is no way back now - Momentum has a nasty grip and there is no one with strength like Kinnock waiting in the wings to put them back in their box.

We left at the same time :)

I can't believe how long it's been since this country had a credible opposition. It's bad news for the country.
 








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