[Politics] Next leader of the Labour Party

[Mackenzie]

Hilary Benn or her brother Nigel.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Momentum with an anti capitalist, marxist agenda, control the party, making up almost all the membership after their 2016 coup.

She has a chance.

Moderates such as Starmer and Benn are liked by half the public, but won’t get that Momentum vote.

and labour will not get in... so a vote for the far left is really a vote for the far right.

 

[lawros left foot]

Regardless of the number of people reading the newspapers, they still set the daily political agenda.
You don't have to read a paper (I don't nor do I watch television news anymore) to know that Corbyn is an antisemitic, IRA loving, Loony Leftie.
Television and Online news outlets take their lead from the papers. Their influence over public opinion is as pervasive as it always has been.
Most newspaper owners run a range of media companies.
The agenda will always be set by people with the power to influence public opinion.

It is naive to think that these powerful organisations are preaching to the converted.
It's a bit like saying Coke is the biggest selling soft drink worldwide, because it is the nicest tasting beverage.

Except for your ridiculous Corbyn comment, I was going to post much the same myself.

 

[Weststander]

and labour will not get in... so a vote for the far left is really a vote for the far right.

Ironically, it is.

I’m not sure “far right” is the right term, I reserve that for the BNP, fascists, right wing racists, Trump’s hardcore support, right wing anti-semites. But we’re heading for a Conservative Party of nationalist MP’s, it remains to be seen if they win the GE what else they do.

I hope no single party gets a very significant overall majority, it would lead to an unchecked ideological path to the right or left.

 

[maltaseagull]

Diane Abbott ... I've always rated her very highly and she ticks quite a few of the quota boxes, so important in politics these days

As long as she has no input into budgets..............

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...st-numbers-awkward-excrutiating-a7712916.html

 

[London Irish]

Weird how people moan about one party states in other countries yet you get shedloads of Tories and Libs on here wanting to turn the Labour Party into pale imitations of the parties they actually support.

Scared the British people finally have a genuine alternative to vote for? That unlike the cliche has it, not all politicians are the same?

There’s no vacancy

 

[London Irish]

Regardless of the number of people reading the newspapers, they still set the daily political agenda.
You don't have to read a paper (I don't nor do I watch television news anymore) to know that Corbyn is an antisemitic, IRA loving, Loony Leftie.
Television and Online news outlets take their lead from the papers. Their influence over public opinion is as pervasive as it always has been.
Most newspaper owners run a range of media companies.
The agenda will always be set by people with the power to influence public opinion.

It is naive to think that these powerful organisations are preaching to the converted.
It's a bit like saying Coke is the biggest selling soft drink worldwide, because it is the nicest tasting beverage.

What happened in June 2017 then, remember when the Labour Party got the biggest increase in its vote since 1945? Facts are such inconvenient things

 

[Weststander]

What happened in June 2017 then, remember when the Labour Party got the biggest increase in its vote since 1945? Facts are such inconvenient things

There are regular Labour voters here who’ve made it plain they don’t rate Corbyn in the slightest, they’ve spelt out why.

The overriding point - with Austerity and 4 years of Brexit uncertainty/fatigue, Labour should be out of sight in the polls exactly like 1997, heading for a landslide.

Why isn’t the lead up to the 1997 GE being replicated? Something huge is amiss.

 

[BLOCK F]

Revolutions never come about by voting - ask the millions demonstrating at the moment in Hong Kong, Catalonia, Chile, Lebanon etc.


Who said anything about a Utopia - I want a society where 99% of the population are not impacted by the decisions of the 0.01% - they have screwed us over too many time. As for the track record - look at the track record for capitalism - with destroying the planet currently top of the list - and it goes on from there. If capitalism is the best we can do they we are all royally screwed. And by the way - socialists don't plot - they are extremely open about their objectives (unlike the elites who pretend to have the interests of working class people at heart).

And from this old socialist - enjoy your evening with your grandson (and I hope that the cost of the nursery isn't equivalent to a mortgage - which it is here in Ireland).

Good evening old socialist, we had a good afternoon with the grandson and am now knackered!
I'm not sure how much the nursery costs as my daughter and her other half pay that. We have the little fellow two or three times a week and his other granny also has him a couple of times a week so it keeps costs down a bit.
I'm not sure a revolution would go down too well here, but who knows in this day and age.
We'll have to agree to disagree about capitalism for all the usual reasons I dare say you've argued against for years. Suffice to say, it ain't perfect, but it is the best system we've got.
Anyway, a drink is called for this end and so I will raise a glass to us respecting our different views!from this old capitalist.

 

[Bold Seagull]

There are regular Labour voters here who’ve made it plain they don’t rate Corbyn in the slightest, they’ve spelt out why.

The overriding point - with Austerity and 4 years of Brexit uncertainty/fatigue, Labour should be out of sight in the polls exactly like 1997, heading for a landslide.

Why isn’t the lead up to the 1997 GE being replicated? Something huge is amiss.

If only if it were that simple. Scottish Independence, Brexit, Coalition governments, financial crash incorrectly linked to Labour spending. There are dynamic factors as to why we are where we are. Brown and Milliband were destroyed in the polls. Corbyn halted a slide in Labour's vote that started straight after 1997. Look at the vote numbers:
1997 13.5m
2001 10.7m
2005 9.6m
2010 8.6m
2015 9.3m
2017 12.9m

How can Labour's opposition strength be put down to Corbyn as a weakness? Blair's Labour moved to the point of being ridiculed as Tory-lite.

It doesn't really come down to Corbyn, it comes down to a deep seated fear of policies of the left. Policies proving successful in the likes of Scandinavia, and other progressive European countries unafraid of state ownership, progressive taxation and well funded state sectors.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

What happened in June 2017 then, remember when the Labour Party got the biggest increase in its vote since 1945? Facts are such inconvenient things

?? - You are trying to say that the Media's support of the Tories is disproven because Labour did well in 2017?
Against the weakest Tory government/leader in living memory?


rightyho..

 

[beorhthelm]

What happened in June 2017 then, remember when the Labour Party got the biggest increase in its vote since 1945? Facts are such inconvenient things

just need to do it again, gain another 60 seats.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Except for your ridiculous Corbyn comment, I was going to post much the same myself.

I don't think that myself... It was supposed to be an example of what we are supposed to think about Corbyn

 

[Weststander]

If only if it were that simple. Scottish Independence, Brexit, Coalition governments, financial crash incorrectly linked to Labour spending. There are dynamic factors as to why we are where we are. Brown and Milliband were destroyed in the polls. Corbyn halted a slide in Labour's vote that started straight after 1997. Look at the vote numbers:
1997 13.5m
2001 10.7m
2005 9.6m
2010 8.6m
2015 9.3m
2017 12.9m

How can Labour's opposition strength be put down to Corbyn as a weakness? Blair's Labour moved to the point of being ridiculed as Tory-lite.

It doesn't really come down to Corbyn, it comes down to a deep seated fear of policies of the left. Policies proving successful in the likes of Scandinavia, and other progressive European countries unafraid of state ownership, progressive taxation and well funded state sectors.

Who was doing the Tory-lite ridiculing? You’re right, it was there. It was the hard left who didn’t like sensible compromises made for a mixed economy. I think the Labour Party from John Smith onwards, both internally and in governing, did far more good than wrong. They could never shake off an angry hard left minority, funnily enough, in the same way that Major and Cameron couldn’t shake off the Redwood types.

Discussed very often in these threads including this week - the taxation system in Sweden and Finland doesn’t tax the wealthy and companies until the pips squeak, to fund their excellent social safety net. Instead, everyone having circa above £25,000 income pays a huge proportion in taxes, giving much lower net pay compared to us. Completely necessary, otherwise the sums simply don’t balance. Fair enough, but are Brits prepared to take that?

 

[Stumpy Tim]

If only if it were that simple. Scottish Independence, Brexit, Coalition governments, financial crash incorrectly linked to Labour spending. There are dynamic factors as to why we are where we are. Brown and Milliband were destroyed in the polls. Corbyn halted a slide in Labour's vote that started straight after 1997. Look at the vote numbers:
1997 13.5m
2001 10.7m
2005 9.6m
2010 8.6m
2015 9.3m
2017 12.9m

How can Labour's opposition strength be put down to Corbyn as a weakness? Blair's Labour moved to the point of being ridiculed as Tory-lite.

It doesn't really come down to Corbyn, it comes down to a deep seated fear of policies of the left. Policies proving successful in the likes of Scandinavia, and other progressive European countries unafraid of state ownership, progressive taxation and well funded state sectors.

Of course the numbers were so high in 1997. It was a complete landslide and Labour had nowhere to go but down from there.

Corbyn has been up against the worst Conservative government in my lifetime and are absolutely miles behind in the polls. They are not a genuine alternative I'm afraid

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The thing is, if JC did get binned off, the tabloids fire would be just as strong on whoever replaced him and they would find themselves similarly mired.

THIS!!



The game is to keep the right group in power and make sure they carry on looking after the 1%.
Just like their support for Brexit has nothing to do with Sovereignty and everything to do with Taxation..

 

[Bold Seagull]

Of course the numbers were so high in 1997. It was a complete landslide and Labour had nowhere to go but down from there.

Corbyn has been up against the worst Conservative government in my lifetime and are absolutely miles behind in the polls. They are not a genuine alternative I'm afraid

That doesn't really make sense. Cameron got 10.7m then 11.3m. That is more than Blair got in 2001 and 2005. There was no reason for New Labour's vote to have dropped off so dramatically. Thatcher won a landslide in 1979 but strengethened her vote in 1983 and 1987 - she never dipped below 13m. Why did 3.5m then 4m voters desert Blair in 2001 and 2005? Can't be explained by 'nowhere to go but down from there', too simplistic. We'll find out if they are a genuine alternative in just over a month.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Who was doing the Tory-lite ridiculing? You’re right, it was there. It was the hard left who didn’t like sensible compromises made for a mixed economy. I think the Labour Party from John Smith onwards, both internally and in governing, did far more good than wrong. They could never shake off an angry hard left minority, funnily enough, in the same way that Major and Cameron couldn’t shake off the Redwood types.

Discussed very often in these threads including this week - the taxation system in Sweden and Finland doesn’t tax the wealthy and companies until the pips squeak, to fund their excellent social safety net. Instead, everyone having circa above £25,000 income pays a huge proportion in taxes, giving much lower net pay compared to us. Completely necessary, otherwise the sums simply don’t balance. Fair enough, but are Brits prepared to take that?

As said above, it was the voters. You might stay in power, but you have to ask why you drop 3.5m votes between elections if 'things are going well'. The press nailed 'Tory-lite' as a thing to be fair, it suited a narrative, then after the financial crash it was irresponsible spending not 'Tory-lite' that caused it. This really had nothing to do with the hard left. This was moderates in the party wanting some semblance of Labour values. Why do you think Brown wanted to wrestle back control from Blair - he wasn't hard left.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Suffice to say, it ain't perfect, but it is the best system we've got.

Enjoy your drink - but just to make a comment on this - if capitalism is the best system we've got then the planet is f*cked - now an old capitalist like you and an old socialist like me mightn't haven't to worry about it too much - but I dare say that your grandson and my beautiful grand-daughter will face the consequences.

 

[beorhthelm]

Discussed very often in these threads including this week - the taxation system in Sweden and Finland doesn’t tax the wealthy and companies until the pips squeak, to fund their excellent social safety net. Instead, everyone having circa above £25,000 income pays a huge proportion in taxes, giving much lower net pay compared to us. Completely necessary, otherwise the sums simply don’t balance. Fair enough, but are Brits prepared to take that?

ask the Liberals, last election they promised a whole 1p extra on income tax to spend on NHS.