[Politics] Next leader of the Labour Party

[BLOCK F]

Comrade McDonnell is the shoe in, to keep the opposition Red Flag Flying.

If Corbyn gets defeated, he will go and I believe McDonnell will also go.........well, I bloody well hope so.
The best chance for Labour will be to occupy the centre left ground again and that means doing away with the idealogues on the far left and basically starting again with sensible moderates at the helm.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The OP judged a post GE world where JC will retire, after another election defeat. The vast majority of people according to the polls on his non-effectiveness and the bookies have him down as losing again. I guess there’s an element of simply wondering what might’ve been with a moderate agenda and someone like Starmer, Benn, Cooper or Kinnock at the helm.

You could’ve been looking at being three years in a New Labour type government right now.

A moderate leader would have lost convincingly in the snap election called by May.
The Corbyn policies and anti-austerity rhetoric was a genuine factor in the last result.
The Tories seriously underestimated him at the time, and seriously over-estimated their true standing with the electorate.

This election will be fought solely on Brexit this time, which Corbyn has totally fudged.
Brexiteers will not go anywhere near him and remainers won't trust him.
Suspect he over estimates himself based on the last election result.. Labour will crash and burn in this one, IMO.

 

[blue-shifted]

The most important issue facing us is Brexit as that will determine the way the economy will go for the next 20+ years.

If BREXIT is a moderate success (our income rises) it will have a massive negative impact on many people's lives as NHS gets broken up and state benefits continue to be reduced as we move towards a freer economy where there is even greater aggregation of wealth my a small minority.

If (as I expect) BREXIT fails to deliver benefits and our economy and incomes shrink then NHS still gets broken up and our benefits system gets screwed. Taxes will increase for the average tax payer to make up the gap in reduced GDP.

I hope the majority see what the Tory party has done and will continue to do if it wins i.e. screw the average person.

To me it needs to polarise around remain & leave and not labour, tory, lib_dem, snp or green .

Mate, not even the craziest of brexit zealots are pretending there might be an economic upside any more

The choice is between a punch in the face or a punch in the face with a knuckleduster. The nice slice of cake which was promised has absolutely no chance of materialising

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

He is unelectable because he is unable to cut through and win in the seats that Labour would need to win in order to gain an overall majority. Sure, Labour members vote for him and he certainly increased the size of the Labour vote in established Labour heartlands, but under the FPTP system that is less important than winning additioanl seats and the plain fact of the matter is that he does not appeal to enough traditional Tory or Lib Dem voters to do that. Unelectable.

Except it wasn’t just an increase in votes for Labour in established Labour seats In 2017, Labour had 36 gains - 28 of which were from the Conservatives and two from the Lib Dems. The party also took six Scottish seats from the SNP. May underestimated Corbyn and it ultimately cost her her job. You’d think people would have learnt by now but yeah sure, the man is “unelectable”

 

[BLOCK F]

I met Keir Starmer several times before I retired. He is a very genuine intelligent man.

The Labour party will do what Seamus Milne tells them to do.

If Corbyn is defeated he will go, and that will surely herald the end of the wretched Seamus Milne and the likes of James Faulkner etc.

 

[Two Professors]

Mate, not even the craziest of brexit zealots are pretending there might be an economic upside any more

The choice is between a punch in the face or a punch in the face with a knuckleduster. The nice slice of cake which was promised has absolutely no chance of materialising

Wrong.As long as we are out before the begging bowl comes out,we should do very nicely.How is the German economy doing?And ECB creative banking?And mass youth unemployment?Draghi retiring and a crook taking over? etc etc

 

[Uh_huh_him]

If he’s so unelectable why have Labour members voted for him in droves...twice? If he’s so unelectable, why did we see the biggest increase in votes for the Labour Party since WW2 in May’s snap election? This “he’s unelectable” nonsense Is simply lazy. Sure critique the mans politics, but posts like the above is simply regurgitated right wing press sound bites.

I agree with your points, however he has wasted his opportunity and lost (ironically) momentum, since the last election.

The youth vote are less impressed with him than they were, due to his constant calling for an election as opposed to making a stand on Brexit.
This election will be about Brexit, nothing else.. He is weak on this subject and will be pulled apart during the campaign. IMO

I would have loved to have seen him elected, because I agree with many of his policies.
We are all being duped by the media. The agenda has been set and Corbyn has been out-positioned, I believe.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

If Corbyn is defeated he will go, and that will surely herald the end of the wretched Seamus Milne and the likes of James Faulkner etc.

Let's hope so.

 

[blue-shifted]

I genuinely believe Jeremy Corbyn is a fine man. An ideologue yes, but someone who believes his policies can make a better fairer UK and world for everyone. (which to me puts him above the shabby opportunist he'll be up against). There is a catalogue of evidence of him standing up for what he believes in even though it's not advantageous to him.

However, I don't believe he has the political skillset or leadership ability to be an effective Prime Minister evidenced by his failure to deal with the divisions and the anti-Semitism in his party.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well - given the fact that the great 'unwashed' make up a majority of the electorate I would suggest that he is representing the electorate rather than compromising with the elites (as the Blairites did for two decades.


well - here is your choice so - the Johnson Tories hacking public services to bits for the benefit of Trump's financial donors - or - the European Commission/ECB hacking public services to bits for the benefit of the gamblers in the European financial system.

Personally I would vote for the 'socialist vision' any day - the only way to deal with all the pests who want to make a financial killing out of health, housing and education.

It is not you or me whose votes will will win the general election. Corbyn has to persuade the floating voter. The evidence is is he won't. Happy to be proven wrong. He'll need to come up with some eye-catching policies, of course. And get rid of Dianne Abbott.

 

[blue-shifted]

I agree with your points, however he has wasted his opportunity and lost (ironically) momentum, since the last election.

The youth vote are less impressed with him than they were, due to his constant calling for an election as opposed to making a stand on Brexit.
This election will be about Brexit, nothing else.. He is weak on this subject and will be pulled apart during the campaign. IMO

I would have loved to have seen him elected, because I agree with many of his policies.
We are all being duped by the media. The agenda has been set and Corbyn has been out-positioned, I believe.

Yes. The power of the tabloid press in this country is as astonishing as it is frightening.

Their tactics with Corbyn have been the same as their tactics with the EU. drip drip drip. Over a variety of publications and consistently over a period of time, it's perfectly possible to convince swathes of the country of pretty much anything which suits their billionaire owners.

The progressive and young won't be able to mobilise in enough numbers to stop the middle aged middle class continually voting in regressive governments and policies

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I agree with your points, however he has wasted his opportunity and lost (ironically) momentum, since the last election.

The youth vote are less impressed with him than they were, due to his constant calling for an election as opposed to making a stand on Brexit.
This election will be about Brexit, nothing else.. He is weak on this subject and will be pulled apart during the campaign. IMO

I would have loved to have seen him elected, because I agree with many of his policies.
We are all being duped by the media. The agenda has been set and Corbyn has been out-positioned, I believe.

I agree. Brexit will dictate the GE and Corbyn has, unfortunately, been less than impressive on the subject. However, I do believe he has been stuck between a rock and a hard place in the sense that if Labour were an out-and-out remain party, it would alienate many Labour supporters who voted to leave. I think their current policy, get a deal that protects worker’s rights, the environment etc and put it to the people along with the option of remaining, goes some way of mitigating the damage coming out on either side of the Leave/ remain question would have caused. Unfortunately, because it can’t be put in to a three word sound bite it’s wilfully misinterpreted and deemed ‘too confusing’ by the media and those wishing to discredit Corbyn at every opportunity.

 

[beorhthelm]

Except it wasn’t just an increase in votes for Labour in established Labour seats In 2017, Labour had 36 gains - 28 of which were from the Conservatives and two from the Lib Dems. The party also took six Scottish seats from the SNP. May underestimated Corbyn and it ultimately cost her her job. You’d think people would have learnt by now but yeah sure, the man is “unelectable”

May was a poor leader, poor campaigner and delivered a dull manifesto, got slaughtered over an issue poorly thought out. despite this, Corbyn could only manage to gain a couple dozen seats. his electability on this form doesnt amount to much, like playing well while losing only 1-0 to Man U. needs strong policy headliners that the electorate in the suburbs and shires will buy into, i wonder what they will be?

 

[BLOCK F]

I get all that. I was just moving it on as to why he is feared. I actually want proper reasons and not what the polls tell us about his lack of popularity..... I have his possible overspending so far.... let’s carry on though.

If you don't know and really want to hear yet more opinions, why not just start a new thread with whatever title you choose.
Personally, I'm fed up with all the nastiness currently on the NSC political threads, so I won't be joining in!

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

May was a poor leader, poor campaigner and delivered a dull manifesto, got slaughtered over an issue poorly thought out. despite this, Corbyn could only manage to gain a couple dozen seats. his electability on this form doesnt amount to much, like playing well while losing only 1-0 to Man U. needs strong policy headliners that the electorate in the suburbs and shires will buy into, i wonder what they will be?

I imagine they’ll be the same policy headlines that have already been shown to be incredibly popular with the public...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The Tories were in discussions with the Provos while they were still blowing up soldiers (and helping the loyalist paramilitaries kill Catholics at the same time) - and I am not a republican.

And yet Thatcher won millions of votes and seats by loudly proclaiming that she would never talk to terrorists. That statement has unintentionally become an incredible long term investment for the tories. I can imagine some old fellahs thinking they would rather die in a ditch than see a Corbyn government. That's how tropes work.

Corbyn will never win over the likes of the gammon dullards on here who seem to spend all their time campaigining for a conservative victory. But that doesn't really matter. It is the floaters, innit?

Therefore Corbyn needs to engage with a bit of PR management. I loved Mandleson for his Malcolm Tuckeresque media manipulation. You have to bloody sell yourself.

Unfortunately Corbyn lacks introspection. This is a charge I have had levelled at me. And it is true. But I'm not vying to become PM.

 

[wellquickwoody]

If he’s so unelectable why have Labour members voted for him in droves...twice? If he’s so unelectable, why did we see the biggest increase in votes for the Labour Party since WW2 in May’s snap election? This “he’s unelectable” nonsense Is simply lazy. Sure critique the mans politics, but posts like the above is simply regurgitated right wing press sound bites.

1. The membership have been massively infiltrated by Momentum.

2. Why did he fail to beat the most ineffective Tory party in decades?

3. He cannot connect with many who might vote Labour if he was not at the helm.

Labour will NEVER win an election with JC in charge, hung House of Commons at best.

 

[beorhthelm]

I imagine they’ll be the same policy headlines that have already been shown to be incredibly popular with the public...

so you dont expect anything new, or anything to gain ground? where will Corbyn pick up 60 seats from?

 

[Surf's Up]

Comrade McDonnell is the shoe in, to keep the opposition Red Flag Flying.

McDonnell may not be too keen to be the Head Honcho, preferring perhaps to remain the major puppeteer rather than be the puppet. Either way the left will never relinquish the power and the grip they now have on the Labour Party's organs () so intelligent, sensible moderates like Benn or Starmer will only achieve office in a new centre-left party when Labour inevitably splits in two. It's possible they may elect a woman as the new left wing leader so you're looking at the likes of Rayner, Long-Baily, Butler or Thornberry as the new puppet for McDonnell, Lansbury, McCluskey et al.

 

[crodonilson]

The Eagle sisters joint leadership.