New Poll. Europe: In or Out

[Worthingite]

Not massively political, but in relation to this referendum nonsense - I was going to vote leave, until I realised that two of the biggest thunder****s in the Conservative government - Gove and Duncan-Smith - are the main backers of the Out campaign. All we need is Jeremy Hunt and Gorgeous George to vote out and we have the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Scotland will definitely vote IN and if the UK votes OUT then I think the Scots will have a far more powerful case for independence, they could then get a second referendum, this time the EU issue could tip the scales and they might get their independence.

Therefore, by voting OUT to preserve our sovereignty it could well end up breaking up the UK.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Not massively political, but in relation to this referendum nonsense - I was going to vote leave, until I realised that two of the biggest thunder****s in the Conservative government - Gove and Duncan-Smith - are the main backers of the Out campaign. All we need is Jeremy Hunt and Gorgeous George to vote out and we have the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

Time for a rethink?

Those who want to remain in the EU:

Prime Minister David Cameron
Chancellor George Osborne
Home Secretary Theresa May
Business Secretary Sajid Javid
Welsh Secretary Stephen Crabb
International Development Secretary Justine Greening
Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt
Communities and Local Government Secretary Greg Clark
Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin
Environment Secretary Elizabeth Truss
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster Oliver Letwin
Secretary of State for Education Nicky Morgan
Secretary of State for Scotland David Mundell
House of Lords Leader Baroness Stowell of Beeston
Secretary of State for Defence Michael Fallon
Secretary of State for Energy Amber Rudd
Paymaster General Matt Hancock*
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Greg Hands*
Chief Whip Mark Harper*
Minister for Small Business Anna Soubry*
Minister without Portfolio Robert Halfon*
Attorney General Jeremy Wright*

 

[Worthingite]

Time for a rethink?

Those who want to remain in the EU:

Prime Minister David Cameron
Chancellor George Osborne
Home Secretary Theresa May
Business Secretary Sajid Javid
Welsh Secretary Stephen Crabb
International Development Secretary Justine Greening
Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt
Communities and Local Government Secretary Greg Clark
Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin
Environment Secretary Elizabeth Truss
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster Oliver Letwin
Secretary of State for Education Nicky Morgan
Secretary of State for Scotland David Mundell
House of Lords Leader Baroness Stowell of Beeston
Secretary of State for Defence Michael Fallon
Secretary of State for Energy Amber Rudd
Paymaster General Matt Hancock*
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Greg Hands*
Chief Whip Mark Harper*
Minister for Small Business Anna Soubry*
Minister without Portfolio Robert Halfon*
Attorney General Jeremy Wright*

Im buggered then. Quite literally a case of clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right!!!

 

[cunning fergus]

Scotland will definitely vote IN and if the UK votes OUT then I think the Scots will have a far more powerful case for independence, they could then get a second referendum, this time the EU issue could tip the scales and they might get their independence.

Therefore, by voting OUT to preserve our sovereignty it could well end up breaking up the UK.

I think you are wrong.

If he Scots do force a referendum the chances for a UK break up are even less likely than last year.

Sturgeon has admitted they overstated oil revenues and that was when it was twice as high as it is now. With Iran back in the game, and overproduction elsewhere, then extracting oil from the North Sea will continue to be expensive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...mits-independence-oil-figures-were-wrong.html

This is well understood up north, the SNP are an anti Labour vote, no more no less.

The EU membership question certainly isn't going to change that far more important position.

 

[cunning fergus]

I must confess Napoleon's early campaigns are a bit of a blank spot in my historical knowledge so I certainly defer to you. Just read a great book about Waterloo recently which I hadn't really looked at in depth before. Interesting though then how he went from being very popular across the continent, to then mobilising the continent against him

Well I would suggest you do go further back.

The Russian campaign is particularly impressive for the point I made earlier. There is no doubt that he held much of Europe in thrall. The reality of course was that despite promising change it was more of the same, especially once he hooked up with a Hapsburg princess.

Militarily his skill is overstated, Russia and the Egyptian campaign demonstrate that.

 

[Soulman]

Scotland will definitely vote IN and if the UK votes OUT then I think the Scots will have a far more powerful case for independence, they could then get a second referendum, this time the EU issue could tip the scales and they might get their independence.

Therefore, by voting OUT to preserve our sovereignty it could well end up breaking up the UK.

So be it. The Scottish people nearly got independence before this issue, if they want to stay in then that is their choice....We have our choice.

 

[cunning fergus]

Thanks for this, although of course Ford employs far more workers in the EU than in Turkey.

So what?

It is a FACT that Ford now employs more than it used to in Turkey because it built a huge plant there to build (amongst other models) the Transit and UK/EU workers jobs were lost as a consequence.

This proves that being outside the EU does not mean car manufacturing jobs will be lost.

On the contrary, as long as costs are competitive with the EU it will be fine.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think you are wrong.

If he Scots do force a referendum the chances for a UK break up are even less likely than last year.

Sturgeon has admitted they overstated oil revenues and that was when it was twice as high as it is now. With Iran back in the game, and overproduction elsewhere, then extracting oil from the North Sea will continue to be expensive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...mits-independence-oil-figures-were-wrong.html

This is well understood up north, the SNP are an anti Labour vote, no more no less.

The EU membership question certainly isn't going to change that far more important position.

We shall see. There does come a point when if practically every politician is SNP and they want to remain in the EU but are forced to exit because they are part of the UK then - regardless of oil revenue - they will be completely disenfranchised. That is an unsustainable position, and in those circumstances I think they will get a second referendum.

The UK is a democratic country, this is why Scotland got their own Parliament because Labour recognised some devolution was necessary in order to reflect the democratic will of the people.

 

[Soulman]

The UK is a democratic country, this is why Scotland got their own Parliament because Labour recognised some devolution was necessary in order to reflect the democratic will of the people.

How can the UK be "democratic" when Scotland has their own Parliament, Wales and NI their own Assemblies, which only their OWN MP's can vote on their own issues, yet England does NOT have it's own Parliament and the other UK countries CAN vote on English ONLY issues.
Democratic my arse.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How can the UK be "democratic" when Scotland has their own Parliament, Wales and NI their own Assemblies, which only their OWN MP's can vote on their own issues, yet England does NOT have it's own Parliament and the other UK countries CAN vote on English ONLY issues.
Democratic my arse.

Within the framework of a union this is very democratic.

 

[crookie]

Well I would suggest you do go further back.

The Russian campaign is particularly impressive for the point I made earlier. There is no doubt that he held much of Europe in thrall. The reality of course was that despite promising change it was more of the same, especially once he hooked up with a Hapsburg princess.

Militarily his skill is overstated, Russia and the Egyptian campaign demonstrate that.

I intend to do just that. The book I read has really whetted my appetite. I remember many years ago getting a ladybird book out of the library describing his great retreat from Russia with quite horrific pics for an 8yr old !! I did A level history but sadly never touched on Napoleon. Plenty of hours on the dull Italian Reunification but nothing on one of Europe's most fascinating leaders of modern times

 

[Soulman]

Within the framework of a union this is very democratic.

Hello Germany calling. Democratic is when England has it's own Parliament in which the MP's that represent English constituencies ONLY can vote on English issues, the same as the Scottish, Welsh and NI MP's are afforded.

 

[brighton fella]

Scotland will definitely vote IN and if the UK votes OUT then I think the Scots will have a far more powerful case for independence, they could then get a second referendum, this time the EU issue could tip the scales and they might get their independence.

Therefore, by voting OUT to preserve our sovereignty it could well end up breaking up the UK.

where do you get your information from concerning the scots, don't tell me the bbc and other mainstream outlets ,exactly ive heard completely different, it is a more even contest than you think.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Hello Germany calling. Democratic is when England has it's own Parliament in which the MP's that represent English constituencies ONLY can vote on English issues, the same as the Scottish, Welsh and NI MP's are afforded.

All well and good but we are a union. The operative word being union.

 

[GT49er]

That way lies madness ... I quite like Gove but loathe Galloway although he's mellowed a bit in recent years. Both are in team leave which is very confusing!

Always was the way - if you were a 'no' voter in 1975, you were labelled as a fellow traveller with Tony Benn and the Commies, AND with Enoch Powell and his fascist, racist mates. Expect an equally dirty campaign this time round. The political establishment wants us to stay IN.

 

[Soulman]

All well and good but we are a union. The operative word being union.

"We" being those that live here is the "operative" word.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

"We" being those that live here is the "operative" word.

This is boring. I contribute enough to the UK to have a say on the UK, and the EU.

 

[cjd]

This is boring. I contribute enough to the UK to have a say on the UK, and the EU.

You certainly contribute more than enough crap on this forum......agreed.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Always was the way - if you were a 'no' voter in 1975, you were labelled as a fellow traveller with Tony Benn and the Commies, AND with Enoch Powell and his fascist, racist mates. Expect an equally dirty campaign this time round. The political establishment wants us to stay IN.

The establishment will now try to sell us any old waffle for us to stay IN. I heard on the radio that Cameron said even if we left the EU we still wouldn't be able to control our borders, that is just the type of bollox I am talking about here. We stand a far better chance of controlling our borders outside the EU, than we do if we stay in. It might take a few years, but we can rip up the EU rules and put in our own for starters.

I'm glad immigration has become a thorn in the side of Cameron and this whole EU debate, Cameron has had years to sort out migration especially from outside the EU, but his government even failed to do that. He has promised us all sorts over the years to reduce immigration and nothing has been sorted. If he had sorted that the overall figures wouldn't be so bad.