I do get a sense the outers are starting to shit themselves a bit 
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
New Poll. Europe: In or Out
- Thread starter The Rivet
- Start date
cjd
Well-known member
I do get a sense the outers are starting to shit themselves a bit
A minor reason I want to stay IN, is because Michael Gove wants OUT. IMHO, Michael Gove is a dick.
Likewise, I wish you would just shut up as you do the 'IN' vote, no good at all.
brighton fella
New member
- Mar 20, 2009
- 1,645
it wasn't the point that he couldn't care less about the referendum that i was bothered about.. it was more of the point that he found vote rigging as not relevant to the subject in hand when it definitely was.
it is hardly surprising that i have a my doubts about the voting when previous referendums have all been rigged.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
I do get a sense the outers are starting to shit themselves a bit
I'll think you'll find the verbal diarrhea is spread pretty evenly across both camps
Talk about putting words in my mouth. I do care about the referendum; very much so.
I'll think you'll find the verbal diarrhea is spread pretty evenly across both camps
cjd
Well-known member
You really are the mouthiest person on this forum.
Personally, I just think you're a ****
brighton fella
New member
- Mar 20, 2009
- 1,645
f*cking hell fella are you daft or something, all three countries were stitched up well and proper and you do not think that it has anything to do with here,
all im saying is that if it can happened over there then it can easily happen here.
brighton fella
New member
- Mar 20, 2009
- 1,645
but shame you don't think vote rigging to be much of a problem though.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
That shouldn't be a reason for changing your voting preference because you don't like someone, or though I will admit as of yesterday I was doing the same as you. You need to put left & right, parties and personalities to one side on this one, you will get a better perspective on things.
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
"Electoral fraud or vote rigging is illegal interference with the process of an election. Acts of fraud affect vote counts to bring about an election result, whether by increasing the vote share of the favoured candidate, depressing the vote share of the rival candidates, or both." In fairness, given the normal definition of 'vote-rigging', I am not sure you have yet provided the evidence.
PS: It's probably best for you not to point out other people's typos.
Tower Hamlets election fraud mayor Lutfur Rahman removed from office
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32428648
Ravids
Active member
Team IN. Don't be silly now people, I'd rather not destroy our economy come June.
Seagull on the wing
New member
OK, not going to mess about....many times I have asked what does the EU give back to us...so far the inners' have said the advantages are there if you look for them...OK, what are they?...nobody has been able to give the advantages.. To us far more.There is not ONE advantage we get from the EU..we export to them,but they export far more to us. We pay over 55 million a DAY (Think how many hospitals and schools we could build with that over a year) to be in the club and get back roughly 33 million...tell you what...you give me a £5 every day and I'll give you £3 back,but I will tell you who you can have in your house,how much you can fish and run your allotment...and you cannot vote me out. I want to be able to vote who I want to run our country and ...no choice with the EU...faceless politicians and judges...why haven't the EU managed to write off their accounts for over 13 years..why do they move their 'government' from Brussels to Strasbourg every year..to appease the French government? Which cost millions every move there and back...what a waste. Of course there are the inners..Kinnock family for one...the whole family claim money and expenses from the EU. Some people say it has kept the peace in Europe...utter rubbish...NATO has kept the peace.
The EU is corrupt and we help to pay for it!
Let's own our borders...our fishing fleet,our farms...our votes for our government,if my government is wrong then I can vote them out,but no chance with EU faceless unelected politicians.
Please can an 'Inner' give me a good reason to stay...the Bias BBC have given plenty of interviews to those who wish to stay in...one said,"Because of all the advantages we get..".yet couldn't name the advantages..Give your country and your childrens future away if you want...
But I want control over our country.. not with an unelected faceless Eurocrat. Yes I was born before the war but my vote is just as important as yours. OUT!OUT! OUT!
The EU is corrupt and we help to pay for it!
Let's own our borders...our fishing fleet,our farms...our votes for our government,if my government is wrong then I can vote them out,but no chance with EU faceless unelected politicians.
Please can an 'Inner' give me a good reason to stay...the Bias BBC have given plenty of interviews to those who wish to stay in...one said,"Because of all the advantages we get..".yet couldn't name the advantages..Give your country and your childrens future away if you want...
But I want control over our country.. not with an unelected faceless Eurocrat. Yes I was born before the war but my vote is just as important as yours. OUT!OUT! OUT!
cjd
Well-known member
I would agree with you if the only reason I want 'IN' is because I disliked the manner in which Michael Gove goes about his ministerial duties. However, on balance, there are several reasons for now deciding on the 'IN' vote.
As stated somewhere else on this forum it is very difficult (if not impossible), to make a judgement solely on information given out by those 'in the know' (i.e. those like Herr Tubthumper who have an extraordinary ability to talk 'shit' incessantly). This applies to a few people on both the 'OUT' and 'In' camps.
Sometimes.....just sometimes....I look at who is 'for' or 'against' and if I have followed that character and the way he conducts himself, that does affect my judgement to a small degree.
Incidentally, as far as politics go, I also agree that this plays no part in decisions such as the future referendum.
desprateseagull
New member
Is this referendum some sort of vanity project, by DC & co? 'Look at me- I saved the UK from those pesky EU folks, let's stay with them anyway..'
Seemed to be doing ok, without his meddling..
Seemed to be doing ok, without his meddling..
Immigration and benefits
Pledge
"We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years." - Conservative Party Manifesto 2015
What he got
An emergency brake that allows the UK to limit access to in-work benefits for union workers newly entering its labour market for seven years. This is a ‘win’ for Cameron, although he had reportedly demanded up to 13 years availability.
Euro safeguards
Pledge
A mechanism to ensure that “Britain can't be discriminated against because it's not part of the euro, can't pick up the bill for eurozone bail-outs, and crucially can’t have imposed on it changes the eurozone want to make without our consent.” - George Osborne to BBC Newsnight on January 14 2016
What he got
A significant ‘win’ for Mr Cameron here, after leaders agreed that just “one” non-Euro state can “indicate their reasoned opposition” to a measure being proposed by the eurozone states, and gave an undertaking that the Council “shall discuss the issue”. The council also pledges to “do all in its power” to engineer a “satisfactory solution” to address the concerns and seek to facilitate “a wider basis of agreement in the Council”.
Although in practice a British Prime Minister has usually had this power, if he protests loudly enough – as Mr Cameron did last year over UK involvement in the bailout of Greece – it is still a talismanic ‘win’ that campaigners will be able to point to when persuading voters that the UK will not be held to ransom by the in-built majority of Eurozone states.
There is also new language referring to a commitment to “preserve the level-playing field” designed to allay French fears that the UK was seeking carve-outs for the City that would enable it to avoid element of European banking regulation to give a competitive advantage to UK-based financial institution.
Working hours
Pledge
“For example, it is neither right nor necessary to claim that the integrity of the single market, or full membership of the European Union requires the working hours of British hospital doctors to be set in Brussels irrespective of the views of British parliamentarians and practitioners.
“In the same way we need to examine whether the balance is right in so many areas where the European Union has legislated including on the environment, social affairs and crime.” - David Cameron in his January 2013 Bloomberg speech
What he got
Nothing. Mr Cameron decided last August not to demand a full exclusion for the UK from EU employment directives after Labour and the trades unions made clear they would not support an EU renegotiation that included opting out of the Working Time Directive.
Budgets and EU waste
Pledge
“Can we carry on with an organisation that has a multi-billion pound budget but not enough focus on controlling spending and shutting down programmes that haven’t worked?" - David Cameron in his January 2013 Bloomberg speech
What he got
A pledge by the European Commission to continue its current work cutting red tape. Specifically to “continue its efforts to make EU law simpler and to reduce regulatory burden for EU business operators...by applying the 2015 Better Regulation Agenda, including in particular the Commission's Regulatory Fitness and Performance Programme (REFIT). Cutting red tape for entrepreneurship, in particular small and medium size enterprises, remains an overarching goal for all of us in delivering growth and jobs.”
Child benefit
Pledge
"If an EU migrant’s child is living abroad then they should receive no child benefit, no matter how long they have worked in the UK and no matter how much tax they have paid." - Conservative Party Manifesto 2015
What he got
This was one of the hardest-fought parts of the negotiation is where Mr Cameron appears to have given the most ground in order to win his headline “seven years” deal on his so-called “benefits brake".
The initial draft text of the deal carried an agreement to pay child benefits at local rates, specifically “an option to index such benefits to the standard of living in the Member State where the child resides.
The final deal text now says that indexation of child benefit should “only apply to new claims” when UK negotiators had wanted all EU migrant children receiving child benefit in their home countries to go onto the new rates immediately.
Instead, there will now be a four-year transition period with the new, lower rates not kicking in until January 1 2020. While Downing Street will claim this as a victory, critics will point out this is a very long way from the manifesto pledge.
Ever closer union
Pledge
“We want an end to our commitment to an ‘ever closer union’, as enshrined in the treaty to which every EU country has to sign up." - Conservative Party Manifesto 2015
What he got
A win for Mr Cameron who has convinced EU leaders that the EU treaties, when they are next opened, will include a new reference to make it clear that the words “ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom”.
This clearly meets the manifesto commitment, however in a sop to Europe’s federalists like Belgium early drafts suggesting this exemption might apply more broadly – for example to countries like Poland and Hungary who have no intention of joining the Euro any time soon - were removed. This is a blow to Mr Cameron’s calls for the EU to accept the need for a looser, more flexible ‘live and let live’ Europe.
Multi-currency union
Pledge
That the EU should formally recognise that it is a "multi-currency union" and that all members must not inevitably join the euro.
What he got
An apparent recognition, in writing, that while the union's objective is to establish "an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro" it is also stated that "not all member states have the euro as their currency". Downing Street is claiming this as a victory for its vision of a multi-speed, multi-direction Europe. The deal text as a whole gives less credence to Mr Cameron’s desire for a “live and let live” Europe than Britain would have liked.
Security
Pledge
"To seek increased powers to bolster UK defences to "stop terrorists and other serious foreign criminals who pose a threat to our society from using spurious human rights arguments to prevent deportation." - Conservative Party Manifesto 2015
What he got
A win. Specifically an agreement for the UK to take "necessary restrictive measures" against individuals deemed to represent "a genuine and serious threat" to public safety, even if they do not pose an "imminent" threat to security. Taking a suspect's "past conduct" into account could be sufficient grounds to act.
Pledge
"We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years." - Conservative Party Manifesto 2015
What he got
An emergency brake that allows the UK to limit access to in-work benefits for union workers newly entering its labour market for seven years. This is a ‘win’ for Cameron, although he had reportedly demanded up to 13 years availability.
Euro safeguards
Pledge
A mechanism to ensure that “Britain can't be discriminated against because it's not part of the euro, can't pick up the bill for eurozone bail-outs, and crucially can’t have imposed on it changes the eurozone want to make without our consent.” - George Osborne to BBC Newsnight on January 14 2016
What he got
A significant ‘win’ for Mr Cameron here, after leaders agreed that just “one” non-Euro state can “indicate their reasoned opposition” to a measure being proposed by the eurozone states, and gave an undertaking that the Council “shall discuss the issue”. The council also pledges to “do all in its power” to engineer a “satisfactory solution” to address the concerns and seek to facilitate “a wider basis of agreement in the Council”.
Although in practice a British Prime Minister has usually had this power, if he protests loudly enough – as Mr Cameron did last year over UK involvement in the bailout of Greece – it is still a talismanic ‘win’ that campaigners will be able to point to when persuading voters that the UK will not be held to ransom by the in-built majority of Eurozone states.
There is also new language referring to a commitment to “preserve the level-playing field” designed to allay French fears that the UK was seeking carve-outs for the City that would enable it to avoid element of European banking regulation to give a competitive advantage to UK-based financial institution.
Working hours
Pledge
“For example, it is neither right nor necessary to claim that the integrity of the single market, or full membership of the European Union requires the working hours of British hospital doctors to be set in Brussels irrespective of the views of British parliamentarians and practitioners.
“In the same way we need to examine whether the balance is right in so many areas where the European Union has legislated including on the environment, social affairs and crime.” - David Cameron in his January 2013 Bloomberg speech
What he got
Nothing. Mr Cameron decided last August not to demand a full exclusion for the UK from EU employment directives after Labour and the trades unions made clear they would not support an EU renegotiation that included opting out of the Working Time Directive.
Budgets and EU waste
Pledge
“Can we carry on with an organisation that has a multi-billion pound budget but not enough focus on controlling spending and shutting down programmes that haven’t worked?" - David Cameron in his January 2013 Bloomberg speech
What he got
A pledge by the European Commission to continue its current work cutting red tape. Specifically to “continue its efforts to make EU law simpler and to reduce regulatory burden for EU business operators...by applying the 2015 Better Regulation Agenda, including in particular the Commission's Regulatory Fitness and Performance Programme (REFIT). Cutting red tape for entrepreneurship, in particular small and medium size enterprises, remains an overarching goal for all of us in delivering growth and jobs.”
Child benefit
Pledge
"If an EU migrant’s child is living abroad then they should receive no child benefit, no matter how long they have worked in the UK and no matter how much tax they have paid." - Conservative Party Manifesto 2015
What he got
This was one of the hardest-fought parts of the negotiation is where Mr Cameron appears to have given the most ground in order to win his headline “seven years” deal on his so-called “benefits brake".
The initial draft text of the deal carried an agreement to pay child benefits at local rates, specifically “an option to index such benefits to the standard of living in the Member State where the child resides.
The final deal text now says that indexation of child benefit should “only apply to new claims” when UK negotiators had wanted all EU migrant children receiving child benefit in their home countries to go onto the new rates immediately.
Instead, there will now be a four-year transition period with the new, lower rates not kicking in until January 1 2020. While Downing Street will claim this as a victory, critics will point out this is a very long way from the manifesto pledge.
Ever closer union
Pledge
“We want an end to our commitment to an ‘ever closer union’, as enshrined in the treaty to which every EU country has to sign up." - Conservative Party Manifesto 2015
What he got
A win for Mr Cameron who has convinced EU leaders that the EU treaties, when they are next opened, will include a new reference to make it clear that the words “ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom”.
This clearly meets the manifesto commitment, however in a sop to Europe’s federalists like Belgium early drafts suggesting this exemption might apply more broadly – for example to countries like Poland and Hungary who have no intention of joining the Euro any time soon - were removed. This is a blow to Mr Cameron’s calls for the EU to accept the need for a looser, more flexible ‘live and let live’ Europe.
Multi-currency union
Pledge
That the EU should formally recognise that it is a "multi-currency union" and that all members must not inevitably join the euro.
What he got
An apparent recognition, in writing, that while the union's objective is to establish "an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro" it is also stated that "not all member states have the euro as their currency". Downing Street is claiming this as a victory for its vision of a multi-speed, multi-direction Europe. The deal text as a whole gives less credence to Mr Cameron’s desire for a “live and let live” Europe than Britain would have liked.
Security
Pledge
"To seek increased powers to bolster UK defences to "stop terrorists and other serious foreign criminals who pose a threat to our society from using spurious human rights arguments to prevent deportation." - Conservative Party Manifesto 2015
What he got
A win. Specifically an agreement for the UK to take "necessary restrictive measures" against individuals deemed to represent "a genuine and serious threat" to public safety, even if they do not pose an "imminent" threat to security. Taking a suspect's "past conduct" into account could be sufficient grounds to act.
brighton fella
New member
- Mar 20, 2009
- 1,645
what on earth are you on about a scam is a scam no matter what way you want to dress it up,
are you saying then that the irish referendum was absolutely fair and are you also saying that both the dutch and french referendums were fair too. have you not heard of the lisbon treaty, come to that do you know the true meaning of fairness ?,
if you can actually be arsed,, look it up and you will find the evidence to back up what i have been saying, whatever way you want to look at it they were all rigged end of.
P.S. i will do as i please and i definitely shall not be taking any advise from you ta. ..