[News] MPs defecting to The Independent Group in parliament

[Weststander]

I do hope there's some kind of basic entry criteria for The Independent Group. Else it could end up as the new home if alm sorts of flouncing self-serving monsters with not an idealistic bone in their body.

It may need some form of control by its MP’s, otherwise it could be hijacked by opponents joining as members, aiming to crush or fatally embarrass it in its formative years. We saw the manipulation that went into the last US Presidential Election.

 

[The Rivet]

Any news from the unprincipled new IP group? Anyone got any ideas on their opinions on Civil investment, NHS, police, immigration, HS2, Fracking, climate change.....anything? No? still just brexit then. A one dimensional group. Laughable.

 

[cunning fergus]

There's so much wrong with so much of this that I'm not sure where to even start.

I’m ready, please justify the splurge of PFI contracts to the tune of £300bn......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...arillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html

Blair a leftie........lmfao.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Rubbish. They are all remainers and EVERYONE knows it, yet you haven't checked! Yeah ok we believe you. There is nothing extreme about the ERG. They represent the referendum winners.

Fair enough. I was fairly sure they were all Remainers, but had not gone back to check. My main point, though, was that it was most certainly not the only reason they were doing what they have done, whether they are Labour or Conservative.

I would have to agree that the ERG is upholding the Leave side. I am not privy to the precise views of each and every member of the ERG, but when it comes down to it I think anyone who tries to push the notion that leaving with "No Deal" should be seen as extreme.

If we end up with a no deal on March 29th, I hate to think how things will turn out. Even if it doesn't work out too bad, the amount of money that the current fiasco has already cost business in this country is devastating, although things about Nissan and Honda and others are said not to be about BREXIT (and yes, there are plenty of other factors in play), the uncertainty will not have made those decisions any more difficult.


But basically, those who have let things come to a point where we are little more than a month away with no idea of what will be in place on March 30th are a total waste of space.

 

[Invicta]

I don't think it's clear whether they were Labour Party or Momentum members. Has that been confirmed?

It's wrong either way ! WTF wrong with people !

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Any news from the unprincipled new IP group? Anyone got any ideas on their opinions on Civil investment, NHS, police, immigration, HS2, Fracking, climate change.....anything? No? still just brexit then. A one dimensional group. Laughable.

Any one of them has got more in the way of principles in their little finger than Boris Johnson has in his whole body.

They are not a political party. They do not have policies. They may become a political party, in which case they will need to have policies. Considering that all they have done so far is resign from their current parties, they already seem to have a fair amount of support from various quarters. It may all come to nothing, but who knows. The one thing they DO have is Principles.

 

[Hampster Gull]

It's so strange that we don't have a successful party between Labour and the Conservatives. On paper I'd think they'd walk it, as so few voters seem to want the left of Labour or the right of the Tories.

Trigg, I’m with you but our system prevents it, it only works for a two party system. For what you and I, and I think most people, want in terms sensible politics require a new system.

 

[The Rivet]

Any one of them has got more in the way of principles in their little finger than Boris Johnson has in his whole body.

They are not a political party. They do not have policies. They may become a political party, in which case they will need to have policies. Considering that all they have done so far is resign from their current parties, they already seem to have a fair amount of support from various quarters. It may all come to nothing, but who knows. The one thing they DO have is Principles.

As you say, just Brexit then. I don't agree about the principles otherwise they would submit to Bi elections wouldn't they.

 

[Javeaseagull]

I’m ready, please justify the splurge of PFI contracts to the tune of £300bn......

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...arillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html

Blair a leftie........lmfao.

The explosion in PFI was down to Gordon Brown imo. It didn’t show on UKs debt even though it was backed by public money, It made him look like a prudent Chancellor. It was smoke and mirrors like his stopping tax relief on pensions. Nobody noticed, who looks at their pensions until it is too late?
He made a great play of not increasing Income tax rates, even introducing a 10% rate at one time. What no-one noticed was the threshold for paying tax stayed the same for years. The Lib Dems campaigned on that and the increase was introduced under the Coalition. Of course the Tories took the credit for that.

 

[drew]

The explosion in PFI was down to Gordon Brown imo. It didn’t show on UKs debt even though it was backed by public money, It made him look like a prudent Chancellor. It was smoke and mirrors like his stopping tax relief on pensions. Nobody noticed, who looks at their pensions until it is too late?
He made a great play of not increasing Income tax rates, even introducing a 10% rate at one time. What no-one noticed was the threshold for paying tax stayed the same for years. The Lib Dems campaigned on that and the increase was introduced under the Coalition. Of course the Tories took the credit for that.

No it didn't. Threshold was £4045 when they came to power in 1997 and when they left it was £6475 with steady increases during that period generally above the rate of inflation.

 

[Javeaseagull]

No it didn't. Threshold was £4045 when they came to power in 1997 and when they left it was £6475 with steady increases during that period generally above the rate of inflation.

Thank you for the figures which sound right to me. I remember thinking some time before New Labour left, why is anyone paying income tax for earning more than 6475 gbp per annum.

 

[BenGarfield]

Stop digging. GG brought up the Nazi comparison comparing 21st century UK news coverage about anti Semitism with Nazi Germany propaganda. If you really believe the two are comparable or it's an acceptable reference you are beyond hope.

George Galloway was competely right to make this comparison. The stakes are extremely high. He is very well informed on these matters and does not make them lightly. The main stream media is full of this type of deep-state propaganda directed against those who don't toe the prescribed line on geo-political issues affecting Israel and USA foreign policy. The USA and Israel will not countenance a leader of the the UK such as Corbyn who is opposed to the neo-con consensus and their grabs for resources, so they`ll concoct any slurs and smears at him and his wing of the Labour party, and if ultimately this does not succeed I suspect assassination, as they probably did with David Kelly, and Robin Cook who stood in their way in their ambitions in Iraq.

You watch, the bogus anti-semitism slurs will next be directed to the presidetial Bernie Sanders (even though he is Jewish!) and Tulsi Gabbard in the USA who dare to step out of line.

 

[beorhthelm]

The explosion in PFI was down to Gordon Brown imo. It didn’t show on UKs debt even though it was backed by public money, It made him look like a prudent Chancellor. It was smoke and mirrors like his stopping tax relief on pensions. Nobody noticed, who looks at their pensions until it is too late?

robbing the pensions estimated to cost £280bn last figure i saw. crafty fellow was Brown.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I'm amazed people voted for these people in the first place

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[Wrong-Direction]

Anyway this is just another cover-up, just like brexit is, keeps us all thinking politicians are worth having..

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[cunning fergus]

The explosion in PFI was down to Gordon Brown imo. It didn’t show on UKs debt even though it was backed by public money, It made him look like a prudent Chancellor. It was smoke and mirrors like his stopping tax relief on pensions. Nobody noticed, who looks at their pensions until it is too late?
He made a great play of not increasing Income tax rates, even introducing a 10% rate at one time. What no-one noticed was the threshold for paying tax stayed the same for years. The Lib Dems campaigned on that and the increase was introduced under the Coalition. Of course the Tories took the credit for that.

PFI is an unmitigated scandal yet to be truly exposed, the only reason the Tories don’t make much of it is that they would be criticising their own model of Government.

The fact is that private outsourcing companies, their bosses and shareholders have already and will benefit financially for decades to come to the tune of many billions of pounds of taxpayers money. This money (profit) is way in excess of the projects capital costs.

https://www.newstatesman.com/staggers/2014/07/save-nhs-labour-must-face-ugly-truth-pfi

Under Labour in the Blair/Brown years analysis indicates that from circa £50bn of capital expended by private companies the taxpayer is in hoc to the tune of £200bn a shocking waste, as explained by the NAO.

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence.com/article/jan-2018/nao-questions-value-money-pfi-contracts

I generally can’t abide Tories with their free market capitalism, it’s why Labour under Blair and Brown was so excruciating. Blairites could justifiably certainly point to investment in the NHS etc. but at what cost? As with the Tory playbook 1.01 banks and private business are balls deep in Govt arrangements, and the taxpayer takes it up the arse.

Sadly this corporate excess and greed never ends well, it’s why Carrillion has gone, along with some NHS trusts unable to bear the burden of PFI. In short more workers taking it up the arse.

Of course I could be wrong........I look forward to someone justifying PFI and why it’s “left wing”.

 

[drew]

robbing the pensions estimated to cost £280bn last figure i saw. crafty fellow was Brown.

And what about the companies that took pension holidays. Unilever did more to damage their pension scheme than Brown ever did.

An extract from an article in 2004


Unilever, the maker of Wall's ice cream and Persil enjoyed seven years of pension holidays. It not only saved millions of pounds but in 1999 also swiped the fund's £270m "surplus", adding it to Unilever's profits. Since 1992 it has stripped £1.2bn from its fund and about two thirds, £726m, was handed back to shareholders in the form of higher profits and bigger dividends. Bitter? Unilever pensioners certainly are. They have run a long-term campaign for the money to be used to boost their pensions rather than directors' salaries, but without success.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2004/jul/10/pensions.jobsandmoney

 

[Bold Seagull]

It's wrong either way ! WTF wrong with people !

Of course it is, but it’s also wrong to use it as a stick for political gain.

 

[Bold Seagull]

And yet...

Your graph is meaningless as it gives no indication of inflation, population etc. As a % of gdp it’s been going down...

 

[Weststander]

PFI is an unmitigated scandal yet to be truly exposed, the only reason the Tories don’t make much of it is that they would be criticising their own model of Government.

The fact is that private outsourcing companies, their bosses and shareholders have already and will benefit financially for decades to come to the tune of many billions of pounds of taxpayers money. This money (profit) is way in excess of the projects capital costs.

https://www.newstatesman.com/staggers/2014/07/save-nhs-labour-must-face-ugly-truth-pfi

Under Labour in the Blair/Brown years analysis indicates that from circa £50bn of capital expended by private companies the taxpayer is in hoc to the tune of £200bn a shocking waste, as explained by the NAO.

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence.com/article/jan-2018/nao-questions-value-money-pfi-contracts

I generally can’t abide Tories with their free market capitalism, it’s why Labour under Blair and Brown was so excruciating. Blairites could justifiably certainly point to investment in the NHS etc. but at what cost? As with the Tory playbook 1.01 banks and private business are balls deep in Govt arrangements, and the taxpayer takes it up the arse.

Sadly this corporate excess and greed never ends well, it’s why Carrillion has gone, along with some NHS trusts unable to bear the burden of PFI. In short more workers taking it up the arse.

Of course I could be wrong........I look forward to someone justifying PFI and why it’s “left wing”.

On your very last sentence, Brown/Blair/many others justify PFI because it accelerated the building of new school and hospital buildings.

[That’s not an argument by me. Just relaying what has always been said].