[News] MPs defecting to The Independent Group in parliament

[Thunder Bolt]

Always good to hear a story like that. Not all large companies acted selfishly.

Do you/will you also get a pension from your time in the military (I think you’ve mentioned the services before?)?

No, females didn't get equality in the forces until the 70s, and even the men had to serve for 22 years, over the age of 18, to get anything.
The only 'benefit' we got, was that we didn't have to pay NI contributions whilst in, because we had our own military health service, but the years still counted towards the state pension.

Once the equality came in, it was a minimum of 4 years adult service to qualify.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

companies are legally obliged to cover the pensions shortfalls. you'd have to go through companies and their pensions case by case to understand why they took payment holidays, often it was because they were in surplus, misguided as it may be. meanwhile, this doesn't address whether it was right or sensible for Browns policy which affect all pensions.

Pensions will be the last of your worries once the Tories have finished destroying the country and society.

 

[Curious Orange]

And what about the companies that took pension holidays. Unilever did more to damage their pension scheme than Brown ever did.

An extract from an article in 2004


Unilever, the maker of Wall's ice cream and Persil enjoyed seven years of pension holidays. It not only saved millions of pounds but in 1999 also swiped the fund's £270m "surplus", adding it to Unilever's profits. Since 1992 it has stripped £1.2bn from its fund and about two thirds, £726m, was handed back to shareholders in the form of higher profits and bigger dividends. Bitter? Unilever pensioners certainly are. They have run a long-term campaign for the money to be used to boost their pensions rather than directors' salaries, but without success.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2004/jul/10/pensions.jobsandmoney

Pension Holidays could only be taken by companies that had fully funded funds - Brown's pension grab caused them to be not fully funded.

 

[Weststander]

No, females didn't get equality in the forces until the 70s, and even the men had to serve for 22 years, over the age of 18, to get anything.
The only 'benefit' we got, was that we didn't have to pay NI contributions whilst in, because we had our own military health service, but the years still counted towards the state pension.

Once the equality came in, it was a minimum of 4 years adult service to qualify.

Sorry to hear that, what a sexist arrangement back in the day.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sorry to hear that, what a sexist arrangement back in the day.

To be fair, it was just the females in the Navy, because we didn't come under martial law, due to not serving at sea. A shame, because I would've liked the opportunity.

 

[drew]

Pension Holidays could only be taken by companies that had fully funded funds - Brown's pension grab caused them to be not fully funded.

HIndsight is a marvellous thing. Fully funded one minute and under funded the next. Those companies did not have a crystal ball.

As for the Brown tax change, exactly why should tax payers help fund private tax schemes? Take the city of London as an example, back in the day everyone had a final salary pension and a lot of people were looking to retire long before 65 on very comfortable pensions. I fail to see why everyone else should be contributing to that, especially those at the lower end of the income spectrum who relied on state pensions.

You also had very well paid directors getting massive contributions to their pension funds and then getting tax breaks.

 

[cunning fergus]

Did you read my post and the one I was replying too?

Someone had said 'it's a shame funding schools and hospitals is seen as hard left' I stated that Blair did exactly that, and he isn't considered hard left. You've managed to quite miraculously miss the point and embarrasses yourself at the same time, all the while agreeing with what I'd said originally.

Oh, youvsee I was focusing on the one that indicated that there was nothing wrong with funding hospitals via PFI.?

Apologies, i take it back, i thought for a moment you were supporting Blair’s tory largesse at the expense of taxpayers......clearly you dont support that kind of thing.

I mean, apart from Tories who would?

 

[WATFORD zero]

PFI is an unmitigated scandal yet to be truly exposed, the only reason the Tories don’t make much of it is that they would be criticising their own model of Government.

The fact is that private outsourcing companies, their bosses and shareholders have already and will benefit financially for decades to come to the tune of many billions of pounds of taxpayers money. This money (profit) is way in excess of the projects capital costs.

https://www.newstatesman.com/staggers/2014/07/save-nhs-labour-must-face-ugly-truth-pfi

Under Labour in the Blair/Brown years analysis indicates that from circa £50bn of capital expended by private companies the taxpayer is in hoc to the tune of £200bn a shocking waste, as explained by the NAO.

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence.com/article/jan-2018/nao-questions-value-money-pfi-contracts

I generally can’t abide Tories with their free market capitalism, it’s why Labour under Blair and Brown was so excruciating. Blairites could justifiably certainly point to investment in the NHS etc. but at what cost? As with the Tory playbook 1.01 banks and private business are balls deep in Govt arrangements, and the taxpayer takes it up the arse.

Sadly this corporate excess and greed never ends well, it’s why Carrillion has gone, along with some NHS trusts unable to bear the burden of PFI. In short more workers taking it up the arse.

Of course I could be wrong........I look forward to someone justifying PFI and why it’s “left wing”.

A post from you that I agree with

In fact, in the early days of PFI, I ended up changing jobs because one of the organisations I worked for started bidding on large PFI contracts and I couldn't justify to myself working for them and taking a salary subsidised by PFI. And, in later years, I made sure that the companies that I had influence in never bid on any PFI contracts.

This from someone who has never seen them-self as being particularly principled or moral !

Certainly not compared to your good self

 

[Ernest]

It says something for the tinge group that even they don’t want Austin. The only politician to resign from a party in protest at his own behaviour

 

[Titanic]

"The MP, who has represented the West Midlands constituency since 2005, later told BBC West Midlands that he was "ashamed" of the party.

"I grew up listening to my dad, who was a refugee from the Holocaust, teaching me about the evils of hatred and prejudice," he said.

"One of the main reasons I joined the Labour Party as a teenager here in Dudley more than 35 years ago was to fight racism and I could never have believed I would be leaving the Labour party because of racism too."

Ian Austin's decision not to join his former colleagues in the new Independent Group is telling.

It shows that he felt strongly enough about the problem of anti-Semitism within Labour to quit the party he has been a member of for 45 years on that basis alone.

But it also suggests that Parliament's newest group may be seen above all for what, in the absence of any policies, unites them.

That is support for a further referendum on leaving the EU, something Ian Austin would not sign up to.

For him the push from a party in which he no longer felt at home was more powerful that the pull of life in a new party on the outside."

Chris Williamson, a close ally of Mr Corbyn, described Mr Austin's departure as "no loss".

 

[Two Professors]

No, females didn't get equality in the forces until the 70s, and even the men had to serve for 22 years, over the age of 18, to get anything.
The only 'benefit' we got, was that we didn't have to pay NI contributions whilst in, because we had our own military health service, but the years still counted towards the state pension.

Once the equality came in, it was a minimum of 4 years adult service to qualify.

Are you sure about that?I did 9 years from 71-80 and receive 9/22 of a full pension,and I understood this applied to any military service from National Service finishing.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Did you read my post and the one I was replying too?

Someone had said 'it's a shame funding schools and hospitals is seen as hard left' I stated that Blair did exactly that, and he isn't considered hard left. You've managed to quite miraculously miss the point and embarrasses yourself at the same time, all the while agreeing with what I'd said originally.

I long since stopped engaging with said person, uniquely not for being a WUM or full time campaigner for the Conservative party, but solely for being unable to engage in a conversation without going psychedically off piste to the point of my utter, utter bafflement. I see things apparently haven't changed.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I long since stopped engaging with said person, uniquely not for being a WUM or full time campaigner for the Conservative party, but solely for being unable to engage in a conversation without going psychedically off piste to the point of my utter, utter bafflement. I see things apparently haven't changed.

Ha ha! It's true. The poster in question seems to make up points to argue against that nobody else has actually made. Also when you do engage with his rants, and disagree on points of fact, he just disappears. Very strange indeed.

 

[Biscuit]

I long since stopped engaging with said person, uniquely not for being a WUM or full time campaigner for the Conservative party, but solely for being unable to engage in a conversation without going psychedically off piste to the point of my utter, utter bafflement. I see things apparently haven't changed.

Ha ha! It's true. The poster in question seems to make up points to argue against that nobody else has actually made. Also when you do engage with his rants, and disagree on points of fact, he just disappears. Very strange indeed.

I have taken your lead, gents. What a bizarre interaction!

 

[Weststander]

HIndsight is a marvellous thing. Fully funded one minute and under funded the next. Those companies did not have a crystal ball.

As for the Brown tax change, exactly why should tax payers help fund private tax schemes? Take the city of London as an example, back in the day everyone had a final salary pension and a lot of people were looking to retire long before 65 on very comfortable pensions. I fail to see why everyone else should be contributing to that, especially those at the lower end of the income spectrum who relied on state pensions.

You also had very well paid directors getting massive contributions to their pension funds and then getting tax breaks.

That last point hits the nail of its head. I think Brown was so focused on closing part of that huge advantage, that his measure simultaneously adversely affected all pension scheme savers including low and middle earners. People like me were in nothing special defined contribution schemes, where every pound invested makes a huge difference with compound growth over 30 or 40 years.

 

[Chicken Run]

It says something for the tinge group that even they don’t want Austin. The only politician to resign from a party in protest at his own behaviour

Bit of a circus this week for the Labour party and to think you actually think these clowns have a shot on the opposite benches I wonder whether you wear a red nose too?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Bit of a circus this week for the Labour party and to think you actually think these clowns have a shot on the opposite benches I wonder whether you wear a red nose too?

Let's face it, Red Ed was too left wing for Austin. Some of Austin's politics he'd be better off in the ERG, than the TIG!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2826170/Bonfire-plotter-breaks-cover-Ian-Austin-tells-Ed-Miliband-tough-immigration.html

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Are you sure about that?I did 9 years from 71-80 and receive 9/22 of a full pension,and I understood this applied to any military service from National Service finishing.

100% certain as my ex husband served from 1960-1971.

 

[beorhthelm]

That last point hits the nail of its head. I think Brown was so focused on closing part of that huge advantage, that his measure simultaneously adversely affected all pension scheme savers including low and middle earners. People like me were in nothing special defined contribution schemes, where every pound invested makes a huge difference with compound growth over 30 or 40 years.

Brown was very focused on spending more while not appearing to rise taxes, so had to find the money through stealth.

 

[Weststander]

Brown was very focused on spending more while not appearing to rise taxes, so had to find the money through stealth.

I think you’re right.