[News] MPs defecting to The Independent Group in parliament

[lawros left foot]

I would have to question the motives of the Not Magnificent Seven, I suspect it has more to do with a lack of personal advancement in Corbyn Labour Party than the Brexit situation or anti- semitism.
The only MP so far, to lodge an amendment for a second referendum is Corbyn,so, I await a plethora of amendments opposing Brexit in the next round of Parliamentary votes.

 

[zefarelly]

agreed, and 70's unionist Labour die hards will whither away one by one . .

This is surely good news for Labour and for British politics?

The centrist, Blairite types have always been a thorn in the sides of those who want to see Labour to return to its left wing roots.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I neither responded to an accusation nor was it a difficult question, I just made a simple statement and you rather childishly pulled the old whatawhatthe**** card out [emoji23]

You did though - I accused Luciana Berger of not knowing who Bill Shankly was, and you responded with - but Caroline Lucas didn't know who Alan Mullery was - a play of the whataboutery card.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Is this going to become a question of numbers in as much as seven well who knows,but if the number was say 27 or more where does Corbyn and Labour go ?

 

[Ernest]

The Independent Group already falling apart with Angela Smith having to make an apology for making racist comments on Politics Live at lunchtime.

You can’t make this up

 

[jakarta]

Sweden is the 9th happiest country in the world, so it doesn't look like the workers are too upset about it.

It's weird the way that people think Corbyn is far left, he'd have been mainstream Labour about 30 years ago.

And we all know how electable they were!

 

[Wardy's twin]

John McDonnell suggests when asked what Jeremy Corbyn will do now to convince wavering MPs considering joining the independent group to stay within Labour, McDonnell says: "We’ll do what we’re doing always, which is an open door.

"We’re listening to people all the time.

The last time Corbyn spoke Luciana Berger personally was 2017, you would think that some of the vile things said at her from her own party colleagues might at have least warranted a face to face? As for McDonnell’s open door [emoji23]

open door policy means 'there's the open door now f*ck off out through it".

 

[Weststander]

The 2017 Labour Party manifesto was very similar to the Norwegian governments to the extent some commentators suggested it was a direct rip off. Norwegian's don't consider their government to be that far left either, and consider it more centre ground.

Impossible to get what Norway has economically, fiscally.

They are rarity on the planet, with places such as Saudi Arabia and UAE, in having the polar opposite of a huge national debt. Having a population 1/13 of the UK’s, they were able to save all their North Sea oil/gas revenues into a now one trillion dollars sovereign fund, which pays for generous pensions for many generations ahead and each budget is neutral. So their government never has to pay interest or state pensions from taxation.

Compare that with the UK where £160b is spent on state pensions and £55b on interest per annum, out of an £800b central government budget.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The Independent Group already falling apart with Angela Smith having to make an apology for making racist comments on Politics Live at lunchtime.

You can’t make this up

Are you a funny tinge [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION]?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Impossible to get what Norway has economically, fiscally.

They are rarity on the planet, with places such as Saudi Arabia and UAE, in having the polar opposite of a huge national debt. Having a population 1/13 of the UK’s, they were able to save all their North Sea oil/gas revenues into a now one trillion dollars sovereign fund, which pays for generous pensions for many generations ahead and each budget is neutral. So their government never has to pay interest or state pensions from taxation.

Compare that with the UK where £160b is spent on state pensions and £55b on interest per annum, out of an £800b central government budget.

That is true, but the point was also made by someone else that are apparent horror in some quarters at Corbyns 'far left' politics is not actually that far left at all in the likes of Germany or other Scandinavian countries. We make these extreme comparisons like Russia or Venezula, and say that is what happens (if you can say Norway is in impossible comparison, then you cannot even include the likes of Russia or Venezula), rather than look at a short boat ride and see other neighbours where capital state investment, progressive tax regimes, public ownership and utilities are not seen as far left ideologies, they are normal politics and the countries are not collapsing and burning in the fires of hell that some people believe will happen.

 

[The Birdman]

 

[Weststander]

That is true, but the point was also made by someone else that are apparent horror in some quarters at Corbyns 'far left' politics is not actually that far left at all in the likes of Germany or other Scandinavian countries. We make these extreme comparisons like Russia or Venezula, and say that is what happens (if you can say Norway is in impossible comparison, then you cannot even include the likes of Russia or Venezula), rather than look at a short boat ride and see other neighbours where capital state investment, progressive tax regimes, public ownership and utilities are not seen as far left ideologies, they are normal politics and the countries are not collapsing and burning in the fires of hell that some people believe will happen.

I’m listening to your views and it’s good to debate with you, you’re not one of the posters who get palpably angry if someone dares question JC/McDonnell/Momentum or mention anti semitism.

A personal view, I don’t trust what they said in the lead up to the last GE. Behind McDonnell’s new image of a softly spoken guy with a suit, is someone who I think who would introduce a raft of other spite taxes once in the door at no 11. I also think that over time, moderate people like Kyle and Cooper would be ousted. I really don’t think 45% of the adult population want a party in power of that narrow hard left ilk. The angry left and angry students/sixth formers in the UK would get their wish, but they are small minority of the broad opinions in the UK. It would be a coup achieved by riding on the coat tails of a major party that has hitherto been a broad church. Using their lazy-minded core vote to gain power and inflict an aggressive agenda.

I really don’t see what’s wrong with the socio-economic formula of Blair, Brown, Cooper, Balls, Kyle.

 

[Happy Exile]

One of the interesting reactions has been people despairing that a Labour split might mean a generation of Toryism. I think it's precisely this kind of settling for the least-worst option, however personally unpalatable that might be, that has led to the tipping point that leads to people leaving Labour in the first place. How about we don't settle for toxicity of any sort but instead demand better of our politicians? Whichever one of them it was who said this morning that politics is too much doing something to stop the other side rather than doing something because it's the right thing to do got it right.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

John McDonnell suggests when asked what Jeremy Corbyn will do now to convince wavering MPs considering joining the independent group to stay within Labour, McDonnell says: "We’ll do what we’re doing always, which is an open door.

"We’re listening to people all the time.

The last time Corbyn spoke Luciana Berger personally was 2017, you would think that some of the vile things said at her from her own party colleagues might at have least warranted a face to face? As for McDonnell’s open door [emoji23]

Open door to Marxists, communists, anti Semites, class warrior types but an exit door to moderate Labour people and Jews,

 

[Bold Seagull]

I’m listening to your views and it’s good to debate with you, you’re not one of the posters who get palpably angry if someone dares question JC/McDonnell/Momentum or mention anti semitism.

A personal view, I don’t trust what they said in the lead up to the last GE. Behind McDonnell’s new image of a softly spoken guy with a suit, is someone who I think who would introduce a raft of other spite taxes once in the door at no 11. I also think that over time, moderate people like Kyle and Cooper would be ousted. I really don’t think 45% of the adult population want a party in power of that narrow hard left ilk. The angry left and angry students/sixth formers in the UK would get their wish, but they are small minority of the broad opinions in the UK. It would be a coup achieved by riding on the coat tails of a major party that has hitherto been a broad church. Using their lazy-minded core vote to gain power and inflict an aggressive agenda.

I really don’t see what’s wrong with the socio-economic formula of Blair, Brown, Cooper, Balls, Kyle.

Thanks, don't feel very tribal about politics, and you're always very reasonable, I just get involved when I feel certain points don't make sense or need to be challenged. I don't disagree with you here entirely either, but in terms of your last point, the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell sat loyal in those years to their Labour Party that went to the center ground under Blair / Brown, and other than rebellious votes, didn't cause the kind of trouble these MPs have caused. I suppose they are thinking that they have a mandate for the party politics they believe in and 13m voters at the last election endorsed that.

My own criticism of Corbyn is that he appears institutionalised and so wedded to procedure and policy, that he is unable to act in a dynamic way. The anti-semetic issues in the party are being dealt with by a committee that has to remain separate from the Party executive as per the democratic rules, but he has an inability to present this and it comes across as indifference or collusion with the problems. He reminds me of a couple of my university tutors.

 

[JCL666]

Really, I would suggest it is more due to selfish reasons, ie that as you grow older you tend to acquire property and therefore you want to protect that and your income. The obvious choice is not to vote for a party that, historically, errs towards higher taxation. The reality is that you vote for the party that reduces the influence of the state and, ergo, lowers taxation and then you have the pleasure of watching the disintegration of society! The property you were trying to protect is now vulnerable because of the lack of police to respond to burglaries etc. Still, you have more money in your pocket so all's well that ends well.

I think that maybe that as you get older, you realise that shouting the odds at each other while adhering to an ideology (for example: excessive taxation or total deregulation of free markets) and refusing to negotiate or compromise gets you nowhere.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I would have to question the motives of the Not Magnificent Seven, I suspect it has more to do with a lack of personal advancement in Corbyn Labour Party than the Brexit situation or anti- semitism.
The only MP so far, to lodge an amendment for a second referendum is Corbyn,so, I await a plethora of amendments opposing Brexit in the next round of Parliamentary votes.

Do you honestly and truly believe what you’ve just written there?

They are quitting because Corbyn won’t promote them?


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[neilbard]

 

[Jackthelad]

It's great to see the snake in the grass Chuka Umunna leave, he really was an egotistical pr*ck of the highest order.

 

[Hastings gull]

It's great to see the snake in the grass Chuka Umunna leave, he really was an egotistical pr*ck of the highest order.

Surely the irony here with this post is that it is all too clear to see why he did want to leave . .