[News] MPs defecting to The Independent Group in parliament

[Jackthelad]

Surely the irony here with this post is that it is all too clear to see why he did want to leave . .

No irony at all, a bad apple spoils the bunch...

 

[Hastings gull]

Open door to Marxists, communists, anti Semites, class warrior types but an exit door to moderate Labour people and Jews,

Like yourself, if I may say so, I do not tend to vote for labour, but fully accept that over the years there have been many fine examples of moderate politicians of the left, who have been ready to compromise, and think of the country first. It must be so very hard for them - and I am sure that there are many more in the wings - to pack up and leave a party that they have cherished for many years. But as an unrepresentative, intolerant and loud minority gets an ever firmer grip, I am sure that more defections will follow. Its a real shame that the few seem to be dictating to the many . . . .

 

[Hastings gull]

No irony at all, a bad apple spoils the bunch...

Really? says who?

 

[Gwylan]

And we all know how electable they were!

Fair point ... although Corbyn's policies would have been mainstream Labour in the 60s, when they won two elections and the 70s where they won one (and drew another!). And they only lost in 1970 because of Peter Bonetti ...

 

[Jackthelad]

Really? says who?

Those with brains who can see Chuka Umunna is a snake.

 

[beorhthelm]

That is true, but the point was also made by someone else that are apparent horror in some quarters at Corbyns 'far left' politics is not actually that far left at all in the likes of Germany or other Scandinavian countries. We make these extreme comparisons like Russia or Venezula, ...

"we" is Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell, that eulogised Venezeula and want to make the comparison to their own politics.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Like yourself, if I may say so, I do not tend to vote for labour, but fully accept that over the years there have been many fine examples of moderate politicians of the left, who have been ready to compromise, and think of the country first. It must be so very hard for them - and I am sure that there are many more in the wings - to pack up and leave a party that they have cherished for many years. But as an unrepresentative, intolerant and loud minority gets an ever firmer grip, I am sure that more defections will follow. Its a real shame that the few seem to be dictating to the many . . . .

You could be describing either party at the moment. The ERG few dictating to the many. etc.

 

[worthingseagull123]

Hilarious seeing Labour falling apart

 

[Blue3]

This is not a labour split more the realignment of its MPs to those of most of its membership similar to the ERG members who left to join UKIP before the last election

I am really surprised at the timing and can only think the indipendat grouping is hoping to shock the political system into action regarding Brexit

 

[Washie]

Hilarious seeing Labour falling apart

I find it horrifying, we basically have only one party that is electable, meaning they can do anything they want and still get into power.

 

[Sorrel]

It will be interesting to see if 4 or 5 current Conservatives join them or not. If the Conservatives are deselected by their party I would guess they would have nothing to lose and so might do it.

The question is whether they could turn this new group into a political force. Like the SDP, they will have the Liberal party problem: two centrist parties at once don't work in the UK voting system and while they might be in favour of changing the voting system they can't do it on their own.

 

[portslade seagull]

Surely Sourbry will join them

 

[Hastings gull]

Those with brains who can see Chuka Umunna is a snake.

The arrogance of this is beyond belief and is further evidence of why he is best shot of the unholy mob, that it has sadly become.

 

[Hastings gull]

You could be describing either party at the moment. The ERG few dictating to the many. etc.

That may or may not the be the case, but that isn't the thread, though, is it?

 

[Weststander]

Thanks, don't feel very tribal about politics, and you're always very reasonable, I just get involved when I feel certain points don't make sense or need to be challenged. I don't disagree with you here entirely either, but in terms of your last point, the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell sat loyal in those years to their Labour Party that went to the center ground under Blair / Brown, and other than rebellious votes, didn't cause the kind of trouble these MPs have caused. I suppose they are thinking that they have a mandate for the party politics they believe in and 13m voters at the last election endorsed that.

My own criticism of Corbyn is that he appears institutionalised and so wedded to procedure and policy, that he is unable to act in a dynamic way. The anti-semetic issues in the party are being dealt with by a committee that has to remain separate from the Party executive as per the democratic rules, but he has an inability to present this and it comes across as indifference or collusion with the problems. He reminds me of a couple of my university tutors.

Good post.

I don’t know why some people are in denial about anti semitism in parts of the hard left? It’s transcends party politiics. Scum at both ends of the political spectrum in the UK and now France for example, are targeting people of a tiny race/religion with violent hatred; not for the first time in the last 2,000 years!

 

[Ernest]

Are you a funny tinge [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION]?

Slightly PINKISH

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

I have to be honest and say that I really thought that Jeremy is not an anti Semite and that it was blown up by the Tory press and party.
But it has been bothering me that they really do not seem to be getting rid of those responsible for anti semitism, very half hearted.
Listening to the breakaway MPs it seems like it is a huge problem.
I find it hard to believe that Jeremy could be racist against anyone or religion, although I do realise he supports the Palestinians and why not.
Seems it's rife in the labour party a great shame and disgusting if true.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

It's great to see the snake in the grass Chuka Umunna leave, he really was an egotistical pr*ck of the highest order.

No doubt something he picked up from his leadership.

 

[Bold Seagull]

That may or may not the be the case, but that isn't the thread, though, is it?

1 point for deviation?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I have to be honest and say that I really thought that Jeremy is not an anti Semite and that it was blown up by the Tory press and party.
But it has been bothering me that they really do not seem to be getting rid of those responsible for anti semitism, very half hearted.
Listening to the breakaway MPs it seems like it is a huge problem.
I find it hard to believe that Jeremy could be racist against anyone or religion, although I do realise he supports the Palestinians and why not.
Seems it's rife in the labour party a great shame and disgusting if true.

I don't think it's rife, but I do think it has been hard to deal with and the mechanisms in place are not fit for purpose in the social media age. We are talking about 1/2 million members that you have to try to hold to account and discipline. The Labour Party has a separate disciplinary group to the executive so Corbyn cannot directly get involved in cases. It must be difficult if member A writes a social media post, that is then deleted, then you have to prove that the language etc. is enough to expel them. Like certain posters on these boards, these people are very careful about the edge of acceptability they tread fully aware not to reveal their true colours too readily.

That said, perhaps this has been far bigger than the Party has been able to accept and it did need a grand gesture of policy change and reform.