Still no answer to the 8,000 children question then?Yep. Antisemite & proud, regularly
You know capitals do t make you any more convincing or correct, don't you Einstein?
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[News] Middle East conflict
- Thread starter Greenbag50
- Start date
aolstudios
Well-known member
Those numbers are direct from Hamas. Who weirdly also never have combatants in their instantly made up 'figures'.
Tbf, you're only interested in Jew hate so there's not going to be a conversation between us without it, is there Hamas boy
Feel free to provide a figure that you think is realistic for the number of children killed, sorry murdered, by Israel then. The photos from Gaza speak for themselves about the indiscriminate murder being carried out by the IDF ( even their hostages ! ).
aolstudios
Well-known member
I have no idea. & neither do you. It's a war. Not that you're interested. You appear almost as ill informed as wqw. Although with him it's deliberate
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Well, I may prefer that Israel stop what they are doing now, this minute, but in doing so I am accepting that Hamas will regroup, rearm and start all over again. For others this is not acceptable and I cannot in truth demand that my preference be acted upon. That said Starmer's position has evolved (see below).
In a wider context I don't have the arrogance to presume I can dictate every labour policy. If they go too far out of my comfort zone I will resign (as I did before when Blair wanted to give state funding to religious schools). Not near there yet.
What Starmer is focused on is urging a negotiated settlement. However I don't think it matters a jot what he calls for. There are only two relevant players in this conflict: Israel and America. All the UK can do is quietly lobby America as best it can, without making America think we are just like the French (all fur coat and no knickers).
As I have noted, one of my brothers is up on the anti war protests, but he has stated repeatedly since Starmer got in that he will vote against labour because it isn't left wing enough for him (thereby denying labour a vote and wasting his own, which benefits the tories). He remains a Corbyn fan. He is not and never was a labour party member. I prefer to operate in a political world where the art of the possible is king.
Given all that, Starmer's latest statement is fine by me.
"I welcome today’s vote at the United Nations Security Council. The horrors of recent months have been intolerable. This resolution describes how we must work for a sustained ceasefire. The next humanitarian truce is urgent, and in the space it brings, intense diplomacy should begin to set new terms under which fighting does not restart and the risk of escalation is reduced.
Hamas must release all the remaining hostages, end all attacks on Israel and have no role in the future governance of Gaza. Israel must agree to end its bombing campaign, allow a humanitarian surge into Gaza, and end settler violence and displacement in the West Bank.
A sustained ceasefire is necessary, but not sufficient, for long term peace. Over recent weeks, I’ve been in discussion with leaders from Europe, America and the Middle East, including Israel and Palestine. There have been no serious peace talks in more than a decade. That’s why there must be a new political process that has the capacity, conviction and commitment to turn the rhetoric around two states living side by side in peace into reality.
The next Labour government will be dedicated to working towards this. The international community must be spurred into action rather than shy away from the challenge. The future of Israelis and Palestinians depends on it."
Quibble over the figures if you wish but it's undeniable that there has been a large number of civilian deaths, many of whom were children. This is hardly surprising given the sheer number of bombs and Gaza's demographics.
A war it may be but that doesn't mean it's a free for all. There are rules of war for a good reason.
OK, understandably you don't trust Hamas figures. How about HRW figures ( broadly similar to the UN figures ) ? 5,500 children ! "Taking all precautions to avoid civilian casualties" - my arse. Just murdering in the way civilians - just as bad as Hamas - both Hamas and the IDF / Israeli government are murderous terrorists - only one is better armed.
Israel/Gaza Hostilities Take Horrific Toll on Children
An estimated 5,500 children have been killed in the Gaza Strip since October 7, according to Gaza’s government media office, amid widespread airstrikes by the Israeli military. Hundreds more are reported missing and may be trapped under the rubble.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,905
Good choice of source material but those figures are from 22nd November, nearly 5 weeks ago - we can be absolutely certain they are much higher than 5,500 now.OK, understandably you don't trust Hamas figures. How about HRW figures ( broadly similar to the UN figures ) ? 5,500 children ! "Taking all precautions to avoid civilian casualties" - my arse. Just murdering in the way civilians - just as bad as Hamas - both Hamas and the IDF / Israeli government are murderous terrorists - only one is better armed.
Israel/Gaza Hostilities Take Horrific Toll on Children
An estimated 5,500 children have been killed in the Gaza Strip since October 7, according to Gaza’s government media office, amid widespread airstrikes by the Israeli military. Hundreds more are reported missing and may be trapped under the rubble.www.hrw.org
Can you find a more updated estimate please?
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,905
UK organisation explains how they are trying to verify Hamas controlled Ministry of Health figures
www.france24.com
Perspective - How UK-based watchdog Airwars is counting Gaza's death toll
How can the deaths of Palestinians in Gaza be monitored by outside organisations? Nearly 19,000 people have been killed in 10 weeks of war, according to the Hamas-run health authorities. The credibility…
www.france24.com
Just replying in amazement and to await your Pavlov dog screams of laughter emoji.
No idea on why you support this murder of civilians so avidly.
Your logic states that 30% of Israeli's are Anti Semitic for disagreeing with the incessant bombardment of Palestinian civilians by an extreme Right Wing ****.
aolstudios
Well-known member
5 mins to
Not at all. I'm simply stating that the poster I'm replying to is regularly Antisemitic. It colours things somewhat
164 IDF military against 28,000 Palestinians. Up to 10,000 bodies are still buried under bombed buildings. Could anyone dispute that possibility?
In my opinion, less anti semetic, more intolerant of Jewish/Israeli lies than you, and unwilling to accept the excuses given to cover these lies up.
When you say Israeli lies, I take it you mean the state/government, which is fair enough. But what do you mean by Jewish lies? Who in particular has lied and what did they say?
armchairclubber
Well-known member
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Remarkable how Iran can manipulate the entire world so easily.
Goal: Prevent Saudi Arabia and Israel normalising relations and making the middle east safer.
---> Fund Hamas and plan huge terror attack
---> Wait for Israel to total Gaza in revenge
---> Profit from Muslims around the world's outrage
Goal: Prevent Saudi Arabia and Israel normalising relations and making the middle east safer.
---> Fund Hamas and plan huge terror attack
---> Wait for Israel to total Gaza in revenge
---> Profit from Muslims around the world's outrage
Fair point.
The lies do, on the whole, emanate from the government of Israel, and its appointed spokespersons. But they are then repeated from a myriad of other sources. That could be media outlets, celebrities, community organisations etc.. What many of these have in common is their links to the Jewish faith, could be the Jewish Chronicle in the UK, Rachel Riley (prominent espouser on Jewish issues), Karen Pollock from the Holocaust Education Trust, also ‘X’ account holders from all across the globe who are not Israeli but are members of the Jewish faith.
I do not accuse all Jews of spreading these lies, but on the whole the propaganda that justifies the current extreme actions of the IDF comes from a mix of Israeli and Jewish sources. Lies would include the shooting of stone throwing children being blamed on Hamas, claims that only fighters were stripped and bound and made to kneel above what could appear to be mass graves, and that none of the many photos released by the IDF have been doctored in any way.
Hamas have committed an indefensible attack on civilians, and have tortured and killed innocent victims. But not on the same level that Israel is doing right now. Israel wants to be considered as a member of the first world, as an equal to western nations, right now it looks like an corrupt African tribal war machine.
Insel affe
HellBilly
Not the best analogy, I would have considered Russia more apt.
- Oct 20, 2022
- 6,905
This is true but be careful to distinguish between outward lies and biased POV - the Israeli Government can be accused fairly of both- many other Jewish sources are either just repeating the Government line/taken in by propaganda or expressing a biased/extreme POV rather than outward lies - but yes, dissembling facts and pedalling propaganda is certainly not ‘telling the whole truth‘ nor even portraying a fair representation of it.
I think you are right - but beware of terminology Many people conflate the Jewish faith with being Jewish- they are not the same thing - the Jewish faith is Judaism. You don’t have to hold the Jewish faith to be Jewish.
- A majority of the world’s Jewish population are secular and don’t subscribe to Judaism, however most do subscribe to some form of non-religious Zionism - which is existential and political in its concept relating to the State of Israel and that simply believes Israel has a right to exist.
Netanyahu’s extreme political right wing government however ( or rather the Religious Zionists controlling it) combine religious ideology with an extreme Zionist position that advocates a Greater Israel ie that the whole of ancient Palestine ( including Gaza) should belong to Israel. These kinds of extreme Religious Zionists as you say, are guilty of perpetuating lies and propaganda against Palestinians and Islam in general to achieve their purpose to create a Greater Israel; deny statehood to the Palestinian people and attempt to disguise their genocidal agenda relating to the war in Gaza. The Israeli Ambassador to Britain is a Religious Zionist who has been a minister in Netanyahu’s far right Government and has pedalled lies and propaganda about PalestinIans for years.
The majority of hardline Zionists that you often see speaking in strong support of Israel in MSM and Jewish chronicles etc believe that the existence of ‘Israel’ is necessary for Jews to protect themselves against anti-semitism or more specifically genocide - these ‘voices’ while not necessarily supporting Netanyahu’s policies or subscribing to any form of religious extremism, do see Israel as the victim in the Israel/Palestinian relationship ( as opposed to accepting any mutual responsibility for the decades of conflict) which, rather than pedalling lies per se, is a very culturally biased POV and more often than not rooted in Islamophobia.
aolstudios
Well-known member
This... ^