[Politics] May 2021 local elections and Hartlepool by-election

[Green Cross Code Man]

Is Starmer brave enough to do that though?

On the evidence of this morning, no he's not. All the press waiting for a statement but instead he goes running to his car with his tail between his legs.

I was pleased when he was elected leader as I thought he'd do a good job, but so far, he's been ineffective and looks as though he's either scared by what's happened or doesn't have any answers of his own, or worse still, both.

 

[beorhthelm]

2019 - Tory + Brexit - 55%

2021 - Tory 52%

Labour would be better to concentrate on winning key seats in the south like Reading, Wycombe, Milton Keynes and others. The so called red wall love the flags, statues and gun boat stuff. The Tories reinvented have themselves, Labour need to do the same

you're probably right. they'll need appeal to the middle, aspirational and affluent classes, while not abandoning their traditional support. Blair achieved this so its not impossible. trouble is Labour dont seem to want to, as you've prefectly higlighted in this and other posts, there seems a view that the traditional support will just put up with what ever the Labour party tells them. even when the voters keep telling them they arent happy about that.

really its time for the Liberals to make play for the same center ground, but they dont seem to mass enough interest to push Labour aside.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Mmmm....Abbott was wheeled out for comedy value. She did the interview while doing her morning walk and could be barely heard among the traffic and the sound of wind. Nicky Campbell was extremely sweet, inviting her to machine-gun herself in the face, and she duly obliged.

I don't think her and her ilk have any sway in labour right now.

I would be surprised if labour mounts a coup against Starmer. Now is not the time - no labour leader has a hope all the while the nation is Winning (defeating Covid and Winning with Brexit.....). If England win a major football competition soon, it will be blue sunsets for the forseeable....[/QUOTE

I refer you to her tweet this am rather than her interview.

Personally I want a strong, left of centre opposition Party - but we clearly don't have that now as Labour is as divided now as the Tories were pre June 2016.

 

[Harmyar]

2019 - Tory + Brexit - 55%

2021 - Tory 52%

Labour would be better to concentrate on winning key seats in the south like Reading, Wycombe, Milton Keynes and others. The so called red wall love the flags, statues and gun boat stuff. The Tories reinvented have themselves, Labour need to do the same

Heres a radical.idea, how about actually listening to the concerns of people in places like Hartlepool?Your post is laughable in its refusal to see that this rejection of the working class will never see it in power again.

 

[cunning fergus]

One of the things that Brexit has done, by design or otherwise, is allowed people to embrace nationalism. It's rampant across the UK be it Scottish, Welsh, English, Irish or British. In England, it has manifested itself in a lurch to the right, just now I'm reading someone who describes themselves as Centre/Centre right retweeting Lawrence Fox, mocking the French navy, warning them about WWII, loads of racist stuff that I won't go in to. It goes on and on, I have no clue what to do about it but Labour following to the centre is not the answer.

One of the things that Brexit did is expose those in the political class that did all that they could to a) overturn the 2016 referendum result b) denigrate those that voted for Brexit and c) predicted a perpetual period of doom and gloom as Britain became subordinate to Burkina Faso.

These people have effectively spent all their political capital shilling the messages behind a), b) and c). What is happening in England now predominantly to Labour is effectively what happened to Labour in Scotland. The Scots were not willing to back the Tories, whereas the English are.

This Board epitomises the messages of those that support messages a) b) and c) and the recent political results demonstrate neatly how far apart they are from the mainstream views of people in this country.

They are political pygmies, furious box room student hall musturbators..........it’s time for them to accept they are irrelevant. I won’t hold my breath obviously.

 

[zefarelly]

If you're looking to get away from right-wing dominated politics, maybe wait a while. Australia's not quite as extreme as here (thanks to be a better electoral system), but they've still got a right wing national government headed by a PM who's in a similar position to the one Theresa May was in: the right-most wing of his party has a strong hand at the moment. Meanwhile, on the left there's division between Labor and Greens (and others) that splits the vote. Although Australia's preferential voting system usually stitches that split vote back together and prevents Labor losing to Liberal, it does sometimes go the other way and pushes Green candidates to the top at the expense of Labor.

I don't think Aus is any better than here, just a generation behind maybe, or I'd already be there. that and the fact its too remote and too hot. I'd miss european culture. In fact I'm missing it already.

 

[Harmyar]

I rejoined Labour when Starmer became leader. I think he's done OK. But he isn't PM, and we have had Brexit and Covid, and Boris has made a couple of good decisions, the most important one being to sanction a massive investment in vaccines that has made the UK stand out from the EU as having got the virus under control (which would not have happened had we stayed in the EU, arguably).

That, and the lack of negative impact of Brexit (I see absolutely no effect of Brexit here in Faversham, and by effect I mean empty supermarket shelves and a mass of noisy unemployed) - yet - has made people think 'he's doing well, and he's quite funny, I'd vote for him'.

Meanwhile Starmer sounds nasal and plaintive, and seems to be agreeing with Boris most of the time then going on about some nuance or other and . . . . .he's suimply dull.

The tide may turn if things go tits up, but I'm not one to talk this great country down so I will paradoxically wish for the things that will keep Boris in power - 'down with Covid' and 'up with the economy'. Funny old world.

Good post

 

[Harmyar]

Is the UK suffering from Stockholm syndrome syndrome?

Utterly bizarre.

Giving millions to their mates in dodgy deals and nobody really cares. Depressing.

No, they just want to be able to vote for an opposition who is more concerned about their welfare rather than what toilet someone goes in,like it or not that is the public perception of the Labour Party.

 

[Happy Exile]

It’s not all doom and gloom. I just googled and found this;

https://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/3040/hlp04_10_ers_document_2011_-_2021pdf.pdf

I don’t really know the town although I used to live nearby about 40 years ago and I’ve seen the Albion play there a few times. It’s clearly not true that there’s no improvement.

Since that report you link to was published in 2014 child poverty stats for Hartlepool from 2014-2019 show a 9.8% increase in the number of children living in poverty. That's pretty compelling evidence of truth at lack of improvement.

https://nechildpoverty.org.uk/facts/

https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/ne...arter-children-living-below-breadline-2862875

 

[Eeyore]

That's the staggering thing - in Hartlepool more than 1 in 4 children live in poverty, almost 1 in 3 live in households earning less than 60% of national median income, and these figures get worse every year. There's no improvement, it's continual decline. How have people become convinced that there's nothing better than more of the same for their communities, and that the those who have consistently ignored the problems and actively created policies to make them worse will somehow now fix it?

I'm not surprised. I should be but...

Hartlepool voted a very strong leave in 2016 which feeds into the Tory's new approach. There is the 'vaccine bounce' as politics works on sentiment. But leaving that out..

Labour won Hartlepool twice under Corbyn. An increased majority in 2017. So why is it lost now ?

The Tory victories in the north have been in Brexit leave areas. They won the 2019 election on that back of 'getting it done'. Since then there has been a constant delivery of rhetoric, but not always policy, that has fed the original narrative. The drums of patriotism worked and worked well.

Labour is not unelectable, just irrelevant now. The move to the centre is a long term thing. But it will do no better than the move to the left. Probably worse, because Labour are on ground that the Tory's have annexed. Once the Tory's needed an avenue into the working class vote. Now they have it and have kept it. Around election time expect more of the beating drums too.

This may last for a long, long time. Post Covid and once the EU dust settles we may get a different realisation. But, even if things don't go well, expect a successful blame shifting with the press in cohorts. Johnson has a list of gaffs and failings as long as your arm. It never sticks though. The Teflon PM.

I said in NSC in 2016 that my biggest concern was endless right-wing governments far more than Brexit itself. This was coming.

I wish I had been wrong.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Yes we do, they are ignorant, racist thickos.
As has been proved again.
Have you been to Hartlepool?
Jesus, its full of them, that is why 70% of them voted to leave without having absolutely no idea of what it was about.

Oh dear.

 

[mikeyjh]

I'm not surprised. I should be but...

Hartlepool voted a very strong leave in 2016 which feeds into the Tory's new approach. There is the 'vaccine bounce' as politics works on sentiment. But leaving that out..

Labour won Hartlepool twice under Corbyn. An increased majority in 2017. So why is it lost now ?

The Tory victories in the north have been in Brexit leave areas. They won the 2019 election on that back of 'getting it done'. Since then there has been a constant delivery of rhetoric, but not always policy, that has fed the original narrative. The drums of patriotism worked and worked well.

Labour is not unelectable, just irrelevant now. The move to the centre is a long term thing. But it will do no better than the move to the left. Probably worse, because Labour are on ground that the Tory's have annexed. Once the Tory's needed an avenue into the working class vote. Now they have it and have kept it. Around election time expect more of the beating drums too.

This may last for a long, long time. Post Covid and once the EU dust settles we may get a different realisation. But even if things don't go well expect a successful blame shifting with the press in cohorts. Johnson has a list of gaffs and failings as long as your arm. It never sticks though. The Teflon PM.

I said in NSC in 2016 that my biggest concern was endless right-wing governments far more than Brexit itself. This was coming.

I wish I had been wrong.

Quite.

 

[mikeyjh]

That's the staggering thing - in Hartlepool more than 1 in 4 children live in poverty, almost 1 in 3 live in households earning less than 60% of national median income, and these figures get worse every year. There's no improvement, it's continual decline. How have people become convinced that there's nothing better than more of the same for their communities, and that the those who have consistently ignored the problems and actively created policies to make them worse will somehow now fix it?

Fundamentally, they have been convinced that the reason for their ills was the EU. Brexit is their hope. You know and I know that leaving the EU is not going to help them but that hope and the messaging that the hope will be rewarded is strong. The politics of blame and division has always been successful - It worked for Brexit, it is working in Scotland where they blame Westminster, it is happening in Wales also. It's happening all around us but some are too blind, or stubborn, or stupid to see it. The end of the UK is nigh and I 'm really sad to see it but it is those most patriotic about the UK who will oversee its demise.

Dare I also say that it worked somewhere else in Europe about 90 years ago.....

 

[shingle]

Can't believe there's not a thread about Labours' drubbing in Hartlepool

No spinning this one I'm afraid. Safe Labour seat for decades, Brexit done and serious questions being asked about the governments handling of everything, and still the residents of Hartlepool don't wanna buy what Labour are selling.

I don't know what the answer is, Diane Abbott says more Corbynism is what's needed.

 

[zefarelly]

That, and the lack of negative impact of Brexit (I see absolutely no effect of Brexit here in Faversham, and by effect I mean empty supermarket shelves and a mass of noisy unemployed) - yet - has made people think 'he's doing well, and he's quite funny, I'd vote for him'.

.

Really?

empty spots on shelves is a common sight here, Noones hungry, but the choices are down and prices are up . . . at work we have huge issues with supplies of materials. and big delays in deliveries. I've also had issues personally with purchases, all from EU countries, be it scooter parts, cclothes, a welder . . .

Covid has covered up a lot . . . . as we all get stebbed and released back into the wild, maybe you'll notice.

I agree with yur last statement . . .many people are daft enough to think like that.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

It's quite likely this will happen . . . . which starts making Australia look like a viable option.

Personally I'd defect to France/Italy, but family and all that . . .

I can see this happening with a lot of qualified professional younger people

I imagine it already is as the UK continues to sink deeper into the mire and Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Canada and the US all start looking a lot more favourable.

 

[zefarelly]

I can see this happening with a lot of qualified professional younger people

I imagine it already is as the UK continues to sink deeper into the mire and Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Canada and the US all start looking a lot more favourable.

My lad has Aus citizenship and a passport on the way, his future doesn't look as dark as mine could be.

 

[Harmyar]

I would say that blaming “brexit” is a red herring. Most people accept that people voted leave/remain and can respect that decision.

Labour (and others) did their utmost to try and revert the outcome of the referendum, THAT is why they have lost votes and respect. You are NEVER going to win votes by holding your potential voters with contempt because they don’t think the same way as you.

That and the swing leftwards (that Starmer hasn’t really addressed/reversed) hasn’t helped, plus there is no indication as to what Starmer is all about, it’s almost like he’s just a stand-in/deputy leader waiting for the next person with proper idea about how to move forward.

For a credible opposition, there’s probably does need to be a new “social democratic” party (for working AND middle classes) that does away with all the labour far lefties, encapsulates previously lib-dem voters etc. Key to that will be to completely accept the Brexit vote and be VERY clear about that, move on etc. And that’s JUST to have a credible opposition, no way near in position to win a general election.

There are a lot of people who say they’d never vote Conservative because of Thatcher (even though that was 40 years ago), in the same mould there will be a LOT who will never vote for anyone who tried to thwart the brexit vote for the same reason.

This 100 %

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Brighton's finest starting trouble for Starmer?

From the BBC......

Labour Left aiming to shake up the party

Adam Fleming

Chief political correspondent

I’ve been speaking to the left-wing Labour MP Lloyd Russell Moyle, who won the race on Twitter to be the first to criticise his leader this morning.

He said Sir Keir Starmer went down well in some parts of the country, but in others he reminded people of Ed Miliband – “uncharismatic and inauthentic.”

He doesn’t think MPs in the Socialist Campaign Group will make a concerted move today - but they are meeting up with fellow left-wingers next week to start work on proposals for radical reform of the party.

This would be either moving towards a federal structure in England - with leaders in cities and regions and a co-ordinator at Westminster - or turning it into a party of parties, such as by allying with the Greens.

 

[BBassic]

No, they just want to be able to vote for an opposition who is more concerned about their welfare rather than what toilet someone goes in,like it or not that is the public perception of the Labour Party.

I'd quite like a party that does both, a party that's concerned with the welfare of everyone. No matter their skin tone or gender.

It shouldn't be, and do forgive me if I've misread your post, a choice between a party that prioritises one set of society and a party that prioritises another.