[Politics] May 2021 local elections and Hartlepool by-election

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Labour need to forget the forlock tuggers in the likes Hartlepool

Oh dear.

Just why do the left hate the working class so much?

 

[Nitram]

Proof that although Boris is a bumbling incompetent idiot, he’s definitely a populist bumbling idiot.

 

[zefarelly]

Oh dear.

Just why do the left hate the working class so much?

If we're going for sweeping generlisations I don't think its the working classes per se, more those who aren't best educated and easily persuaded by the likes of Murdoch etc. Propaganda is the word I believe.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Dianne Abbott on the radio now suggesting that labour would be more popular if they restored the whip to Jeremy Corbyn

 

[The Clamp]

Is it all down to opposing Brexit? The last election saw more people voting for remain parties than leave parties. Ironically, 52% voted for pro-remain parties.
Is it Labour’s weakness since? The public perception of Corbyn that can’t be forgotten? I find it hard to believe it’s solely the stance on Brexit. By 2016 very few minds were being changed on either side. Even fewer now I would imagine.

I can only surmise people have fallen for the Johnson bluster and somehow believe he’s good for the country. Interesting.

 

[zefarelly]

Arrogance/snobbery from many UK politicians and from people who bizarrely feel they’re superior to others, is where this all began.

This

There's clearly a fine line between convincing ordinary folk you will do good by them, and patronising them, we know who got that bit right.

 

[zefarelly]

Is it all down to opposing Brexit? The last election saw more people voting for remain parties than leave parties. Ironically, 52% voted for pro-remain parties.
Is it Labour’s weakness since? The public perception of Corbyn that can’t be forgotten? I find it hard to believe it’s solely the stance on Brexit. By 2016 very few minds were being changed on either side. Even fewer now I would imagine.

I can only surmise people have fallen for the Johnson bluster and somehow believe he’s good for the country. Interesting.

Interesting . .maybe

worrying . .definitely.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

"Dianne, has labour got the right leader?"

"We've got the leader that the party voted for."

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

Labour need to come up with an achievable vision for the country and some serious, specific policies.

Smirking weasel John Ashworth being wheeled out every day, forever only talking about sleaze, after abandoning CV19 failures with the vaccines success, is simply is not good enough. Dyson enquiring about the tax status of his overseas staff being brought back to help the UK to urgently create a ventilator, was NOT a corruption smoking gun. Perspective.

Starmer needs to look back to see how John Smith, Mandelson, Blair and Brown won over swathes of England in the 90’s.

He needs to look forward creating that vision and big policies.

Allowing bitchy class warriors in his party to control the agenda, is the road to political oblivion. It will only yield the x percent of chattering classes, participants of left wing echo chambers, who were non-Tories already.

Hoping that Starmer wakes up from this malaise, take control, brings in great minds.

Totally agree.

 

[nicko31]

Not a big story?

15,464 people in Hartlepool voted for Labour in 2019. Just 8,589 voted for them yesterday. Regardless of the Brexit Party -> Tory switch, Labour have lost a significant number of votes they previously had, and they threw a lot at the constituency in recent weeks to do all they could to get the Labour vote out.

It's why shadow cabinet members on the radio this morning, and impartial observers such as Sir John Curtice are very much treating it like a big story this morning.

2019 - Tory + Brexit - 55%

2021 - Tory 52%

Labour would be better to concentrate on winning key seats in the south like Reading, Wycombe, Milton Keynes and others. The so called red wall love the flags, statues and gun boat stuff. The Tories reinvented have themselves, Labour need to do the same

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm not yearning for this at all but the Tories have created the environment for it.

They embarked on a divisive style of governance without really considering the consequences of their action. Anyway, that's for another conservation...

Having spent years catastrophising about a Brexit no deal, the break up of the UK is your new doomsday drug/topic ... I don't think anyone believes you wouldn't like it to happen just so you could spend years saying I told you so on social media ..

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Dianne Abbott on the radio now suggesting that labour would be more popular if they restored the whip to Jeremy Corbyn

She has a very short memory - Corbyn led Labour to a historically disastrous result at the last GE.

Probably best if she, Corbyn, McDonnell, RLB and the like disappear into the sunset and set up a new Party with Lansman as their spin doctor.

The Labour Party is now in effect two parties, completely divided (as was the Tory Party with pro-EU / Brexiters splitting them before Johnson's purge of moderates)

It feels like it's over for Starmer before he's even started.

 

[jakarta]

"Dianne, has labour got the right leader?"

"We've got the leader that the party voted for."

Dianne Abbott, the gift that keeps giving (for the Tories).

 

[Bozza]

2019 - Tory + Brexit - 55%

2021 - Tory 52%

Labour would be better to concentrate on winning key seats in the south like Reading, Wycombe, Milton Keynes and others. The so called red wall love the flags, statues and gun boat stuff. The Tories reinvented have themselves, Labour need to do the same

Nearly 7,000 (seven thousand) people who voted Labour last time - just 18 months ago - didn't this time.

SEVEN THOUSAND.

But, yes, I think Labour's only real hope from here is to essentially abandon their traditional working class vote. Is Starmer brave enough to do that though?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Is it all down to opposing Brexit? The last election saw more people voting for remain parties than leave parties. Ironically, 52% voted for pro-remain parties.
Is it Labour’s weakness since? The public perception of Corbyn that can’t be forgotten? I find it hard to believe it’s solely the stance on Brexit. By 2016 very few minds were being changed on either side. Even fewer now I would imagine.

I can only surmise people have fallen for the Johnson bluster and somehow believe he’s good for the country. Interesting.

I rejoined Labour when Starmer became leader. I think he's done OK. But he isn't PM, and we have had Brexit and Covid, and Boris has made a couple of good decisions, the most important one being to sanction a massive investment in vaccines that has made the UK stand out from the EU as having got the virus under control (which would not have happened had we stayed in the EU, arguably).

That, and the lack of negative impact of Brexit (I see absolutely no effect of Brexit here in Faversham, and by effect I mean empty supermarket shelves and a mass of noisy unemployed) - yet - has made people think 'he's doing well, and he's quite funny, I'd vote for him'.

Meanwhile Starmer sounds nasal and plaintive, and seems to be agreeing with Boris most of the time then going on about some nuance or other and . . . . .he's suimply dull.

The tide may turn if things go tits up, but I'm not one to talk this great country down so I will paradoxically wish for the things that will keep Boris in power - 'down with Covid' and 'up with the economy'. Funny old world.

 

[mikeyjh]

Is it all down to opposing Brexit? The last election saw more people voting for remain parties than leave parties. Ironically, 52% voted for pro-remain parties.
Is it Labour’s weakness since? The public perception of Corbyn that can’t be forgotten? I find it hard to believe it’s solely the stance on Brexit. By 2016 very few minds were being changed on either side. Even fewer now I would imagine.

I can only surmise people have fallen for the Johnson bluster and somehow believe he’s good for the country. Interesting.

One of the things that Brexit has done, by design or otherwise, is allowed people to embrace nationalism. It's rampant across the UK be it Scottish, Welsh, English, Irish or British. In England, it has manifested itself in a lurch to the right, just now I'm reading someone who describes themselves as Centre/Centre right retweeting Lawrence Fox, mocking the French navy, warning them about WWII, loads of racist stuff that I won't go in to. It goes on and on, I have no clue what to do about it but Labour following to the centre is not the answer.

 

[The Clamp]

One of the things that Brexit has done, by design or otherwise, is allowed people to embrace nationalism. It's rampant across the UK be it Scottish, Welsh, English, Irish or British. In England, it has manifested itself in a lurch to the right, just now I'm reading someone who describes themselves as Centre/Centre right retweeting Lawrence Fox, mocking the French navy, warning them about WWII, loads of racist stuff that I won't go in to. It goes on and on, I have no clue what to do about it but Labour following to the centre is not the answer.

I think that’s pretty much it. England is historically a right wing tyrant. It doesn’t take much to reawaken the beast!

 

[Jim in the West]

I rejoined Labour when Starmer became leader. I think he's done OK. But he isn't PM, and we have had Brexit and Covid, and Boris has made a couple of good decisions, the most important one being to sanction a massive investment in vaccines that has made the UK stand out from the EU as having got the virus under control (which would not have happened had we stayed in the EU, arguably).

That, and the lack of negative impact of Brexit (I see absolutely no effect of Brexit here in Faversham, and by effect I mean empty supermarket shelves and a mass of noisy unemployed) - yet - has made people think 'he's doing well, and he's quite funny, I'd vote for him'.

Meanwhile Starmer sounds nasal and plaintive, and seems to be agreeing with Boris most of the time then going on about some nuance or other and . . . . .he's suimply dull.

The tide may turn if things go tits up, but I'm not one to talk this great country down so I will paradoxically wish for the things that will keep Boris in power - 'down with Covid' and 'up with the economy'. Funny old world.

I'm pretty much in the same boat - rejoined Labour when Starmer got elected - he always seemed very impressive....the word "competent" comes to mind, in leadership terms. Unfortunately competence can often seem dull. And it seems that what we crave at the moment is a leader who lies at every opportunity and generally bumbles around like an idiot.

Fortunately Starmer and Labour have plenty of time before the next General Election. But they must be pretty depressed at the moment, and it's not clear which direction they need to travel to become electable again.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Nearly 7,000 (seven thousand) people who voted Labour last time - just 18 months ago - didn't this time.

SEVEN THOUSAND.

That’s almost the exact number the Tory Party + Brexit Party is down on the last election too! Who’d have thought!

I still agree about it being a disastrous result for Labour though.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

At the end of the day these elections don't really matter. I seem to recall that the tories never won a bielection during Thatcher's era. The general election in 3 years may be fought on battlegrounds we haven't even identified, yet.

The battle for Ulster has only just started. Hard border inthe Irish sea or inland? That can has been kicked down the road but you now only have to bend down to pick it up again.

Boris has gambled that the economy will recover (or at least bimble on), that Covid will be kept in check by relentless vaccination, and the Ulstermen will cause trouble only for themselves. And Boris' trump card, of course, is that he probably doesn't really care if he loses. He's no Trump. He's been PM, and he'll perhaps feel the time is right to make some serious money, ponce around on telly doing travelogues and history shows. He'll probably have some new tottly by then too. Makes you proud to be British.