[Albion] Maupay charged by FA

[Mo Gosfield]

You talk of " mugs like Maupay " , a player who is having a tough time with his form , but gets kicked up hill and down dale by Coady , ending in a very dangerous shove that could of caused considerable damage and the ref is not up with play so guesses it was a fair challenge , he was wrong and not for the first time .

Mugs like Maupay are playing for their careers , for a chance at the national team , and for a new contract . Real MUGS like Moss who can`t do his job will still be officiating next week regardless of how poor his game was today or last week with absolutely NO consequences . He wont be dropped from the team like Maupay could be , he will just be allowed to continue his sub standard performances with no penalties .

Kids aren`t as stupid as you seem to think , they can tell the clean end of a stick to the dirty one . Referees such as Pierluigi Collina are still held in the highest regard because they UNDERSTOOD football , your Mason`s and moss` and Dean`s are so far behind him it makes me wonder if they even try to emulate such a great man .

If Moss was so bad, then why didn't all our other players surround him at the final whistle? Why didn't Potter and his team have words at the end? I'll tell you why......because Potter demonstrates and demands respect and dignity towards officials ( the Brian Clough way ) whatever happens on the field. He is sensible enough to realise what is done is done. Nothing can be changed. It is his mantra. Anything else to him is totally unacceptable.
Maupay has clearly gone beyond that. Well beyond that. Potter expects self-control from his players. He expects a level of consistent behaviour and performance from his players. It is his mantra. Calmness and consistency.
He has tolerated Maupay his Gallic volatility, spending all games cussing and swearing and blaming everyone else within earshot for his own failings. He may feel it adds an edge to his game. He clearly goes out of his way to wind up opposition players. If you dish it out, you have got to be able to take it as well. All sorts of shenanigins go on during play. Its football.
It remains to be seen what emerges from this but my gut feeling is that Maupay will no longer be considered the main striker. We will probably sign someone new and he will become a support player. Andone was too volatile for Potter's liking and I think his patience might be wearing a bit thin now for Neal Maupay.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Managers are expected to be consistent. Players are expected to be consistent.

Referees are anything but consistent.

 

[Acker79]

Managers are expected to be consistent. Players are expected to be consistent.

Referees are anything but consistent.

With respect, this is unfair.

For managers and players you frame it as what is expected of them. For referees, you frame it as what they are achieving.

What manager is consistent? Pep who early this season looked out of the running for the title? Klopp who followed up a galloping title win with a battle to even finish in the top 4? Potter who oversaw a calendar year of one home win (or did we manage a second late in the year I forget?) while delivering a pretty decent away record?
What player is consistent? Maupay with his bunch of goals early in the season, and now struggling? Welbeck with his struggling for goals now banging them in?


Your post could so easily be the other way around and be equally accurate:

We expect consistency from refrees, but players and managers are anything but.


We all "expect" consistency from managers, players and referees (though so deep seated is our hatred of referees that when they are consistent we demand 'common sense' in some situations that does not fit with consistency). But as they are all human beings working with and against other human beings, they all fall short.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

With respect, this is unfair.

For managers and players you frame it as what is expected of them. For referees, you frame it as what they are achieving.

What manager is consistent? Pep who early this season looked out of the running for the title? Klopp who followed up a galloping title win with a battle to even finish in the top 4? Potter who oversaw a calendar year of one home win (or did we manage a second late in the year I forget?) while delivering a pretty decent away record?
What player is consistent? Maupay with his bunch of goals early in the season, and now struggling? Welbeck with his struggling for goals now banging them in?


Your post could so easily be the other way around and be equally accurate:

We expect consistency from refrees, but players and managers are anything but.


We all "expect" consistency from managers, players and referees (though so deep seated is our hatred of referees that when they are consistent we demand 'common sense' in some situations that does not fit with consistency). But as they are all human beings working with and against other human beings, they all fall short.

My post wasn't referring to achievements but standards.
Managers and players are accountable, referees are not.

Referees are consistent with the 'big teams', They allow a lot more.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Referees are consistent with the 'big teams', They allow a lot more.

Is there statistical proof of this?

Any officials in particular?

Types of decision...minor as in throw-ins or major as in spot-kicks?

 

[vagabond]

Is there statistical proof of this?

Any officials in particular?

Types of decision...minor as in throw-ins or major as in spot-kicks?

I haven’t (and won’t) defend Maupay, but from my entire life of watching football I have no doubt there is big team bias with regards to big decisions. It may only be on a subconscious level.

Example, our blatant penalty denied at OT. That would 100% be given the other way.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I haven’t (and won’t) defend Maupay, but from my entire life of watching football I have no doubt there is big team bias with regards to big decisions. It may only be on a subconscious level.

Example, our blatant penalty denied at OT. That would 100% be given the other way.

Even after the final whistle.


Swearing at referees - look at what Graham Poll said

But taking the biscuit for the most depressing nonsense of the week is this nugget from Graham Poll – the man who was once told to “f*** off” 27 times by Wayne Rooney… and did nothing.

“ …referees have to accept abusive comments from players that, correctly, players will not accept from referees”.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/graham-poll-wrong---referees-2989398

 

[blue-shifted]

I haven’t (and won’t) defend Maupay, but from my entire life of watching football I have no doubt there is big team bias with regards to big decisions. It may only be on a subconscious level.

Example, our blatant penalty denied at OT. That would 100% be given the other way.

I think this is true as well. Referees try to do their best, but subconsciously gravitate to an wanting an easy life. In the modern era this means not upsetting a celebrity manager who will slate you in the tabloids.

There were some pretty crazy stat about Man U in the 90's getting 16 pens for every one conceded at OT or something. Can't exactly remember it. But the point is you can't look at it in the context of one decision, but over a series of matches, you'll notice it more.

 

[RandyWanger]

You talk of " mugs like Maupay " , a player who is having a tough time with his form , but gets kicked up hill and down dale by Coady , ending in a very dangerous shove that could of caused considerable damage and the ref is not up with play so guesses it was a fair challenge , he was wrong and not for the first time .

Mugs like Maupay are playing for their careers , for a chance at the national team , and for a new contract . Real MUGS like Moss who can`t do his job will still be officiating next week regardless of how poor his game was today or last week with absolutely NO consequences . He wont be dropped from the team like Maupay could be , he will just be allowed to continue his sub standard performances with no penalties .

Kids aren`t as stupid as you seem to think , they can tell the clean end of a stick to the dirty one . Referees such as Pierluigi Collina are still held in the highest regard because they UNDERSTOOD football , your Mason`s and moss` and Dean`s are so far behind him it makes me wonder if they even try to emulate such a great man .

this

 

[A1X]

Guess we won't find out whether Potter would have used him or not. It'll stop some of the Arsenal melts wetting themselves over him again I guess.

I reckon we should take him to the Emirates and get him to give them all a wave.

 

[sydney]

My post wasn't referring to achievements but standards.
Managers and players are accountable, referees are not.

Referees are consistent with the 'big teams', They allow a lot more.

we can agree on this ....we were watching the west from liverpool game and saw bartley get opened up by a flailing elbow from fabhinio.(?) it took me back to the ramirez challenge when dean sent dale off ......was it ever going to happen with Liverpool, you know with dean being from Birkenhead and all that ....referees are a bloody joke and Moss is a disgrace.

 

[Acker79]

My post wasn't referring to achievements but standards.

But that's the point; it wasn't. For refereees it referred to standards that are achieved, for players and managers it referred to aims and ambitions. Which is an unfair comparison because the truth is it is the same for both.

Managers and players are accountable, referees are not.

Referees are consistent with the 'big teams', They allow a lot more.

Referees are held to account when it is necessary. Managers make mistakes every week (team selections, tactics, substitutions etc), and keep their jobs without issue. Players make mistake every week without losing their job. It's when they really mess up that it costs them (relegation looming, etc).

Referees make mistakes every week, mistakes that are part and parcel of football, honest mistakes when trying their best. They are not, nor should they be, punished for those mistakes. It's the equivalent of the striker taking a shot instead of passing to a better placed teammate - you don't expect him to be dumped in the reserves or sold for doing that, do you? It's a mistake that affects the game, but an honest one that is part of human nature. When they make big mistakes they are held to account. Ask Lee Mason after his mistake against us (he has reffed four games since that mistake, one in league two, three in the championship).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But that's the point; it wasn't. For refereees it referred to standards that are achieved, for players and managers it referred to aims and ambitions. Which is an unfair comparison because the truth is it is the same for both.



Referees are held to account when it is necessary. Managers make mistakes every week (team selections, tactics, substitutions etc), and keep their jobs without issue. Players make mistake every week without losing their job. It's when they really mess up that it costs them (relegation looming, etc).

Referees make mistakes every week, mistakes that are part and parcel of football, honest mistakes when trying their best. They are not, nor should they be, punished for those mistakes. It's the equivalent of the striker taking a shot instead of passing to a better placed teammate - you don't expect him to be dumped in the reserves or sold for doing that, do you? It's a mistake that affects the game, but an honest one that is part of human nature. When they make big mistakes they are held to account. Ask Lee Mason after his mistake against us (four games since that mistake, one in league two, three in the championship).

Why should league two and the championship have to put up with a rubbish referee? That's not being held to account.

 

[Acker79]

Why should league two and the championship have to put up with a rubbish referee? That's not being held to account.

You honestly think a premier league referee would see not being given any premier league games for 2.5 months and being given lower division games is not being punished? You think Harry Kane would be happy if Tottenham loaned him out to Harrogate? Hell, we have fans here who think Connelly won't be happy being loaned to a championship club because he's played and scored for us in the premier league. It absolutely is viewed as punishment by the refs.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You honestly think a premier league referee would see not being given any premier league games for 2.5 months and being given lower division games is not being punished? You think Harry Kane would be happy if Tottenham loaned him out to Harrogate? Hell, we have fans here who think Connelly won't be happy being loaned to a championship club because he's played and scored for us in the premier league. It absolutely is viewed as punishment by the refs.

Players don't get loaned out as a punishment, they get suspended. I think Mason should have been suspended for two matches.

 

[Springal]

The whole ref pyramid is built around investment in individuals and levels. At the elite level it is a long term investment in the individuals so unfortunately it is not as simple as a few bad games and that's it. There is also a good argument for not dwelling on mistakes and being out of the game for a prolonged period. I referee'd for a bit and even after a bad game the week before the next one was pretty anxious, letting someone stew for a few weeks / month would be even worse to get back into it.

That said it is a fairly closed group, run by ex-referees and there is definitely an element of closed ranks. Its known that Jon Moss has failed fitness tests in the past and you have to question at his age should he really be at our absolute elite level after so many seasons? I say no but the rules / program around referees isn't good enough in my opinion. Theres plenty of referees in their early 30s in the EFL - in my opinion we should be looking to develop these earlier rather than clinging on to referees in their early 50s

But I also say the level of inspection of referees in the media and the way they are vilified so much so they get death threats etc is part of the reason we now have VAR so be careful what we wish for

 

[Badger Boy]

Even after the final whistle

That was such a blatant penalty that the only question was, why didn't the referee see it in real time?

 

[TugWilson]

But that's the point; it wasn't. For refereees it referred to standards that are achieved, for players and managers it referred to aims and ambitions. Which is an unfair comparison because the truth is it is the same for both.



Referees are held to account when it is necessary. Managers make mistakes every week (team selections, tactics, substitutions etc), and keep their jobs without issue. Players make mistake every week without losing their job. It's when they really mess up that it costs them (relegation looming, etc).

It's the equivalent of the striker taking a shot instead of passing to a better placed teammate - you don't expect him to be dumped in the reserves or sold for doing that, do you? It's a mistake that affects the game, but an honest one that is part of human nature. When they make big mistakes they are held to account. Ask Lee Mason after his mistake against us (he has reffed four games since that mistake, one in league two, three in the championship).

"Referees make mistakes every week, mistakes that are part and parcel of football, honest mistakes when trying their best. They are not, nor should they be, punished for those mistakes". WHY NOT ? .
If a defender makes an honest challenge on a striker and fouls him it`s a penalty that`s a punishment for poor play , or should that be mistake ? . I`m very confused here , so all 22 players both managers and all 6 subs and coaching staff on the line can be "punished " by the ref for what might be a genuine "mistake " but heaven forbid the ref should be held to the same conditions

 

[Badger Boy]

"Referees make mistakes every week, mistakes that are part and parcel of football, honest mistakes when trying their best. They are not, nor should they be, punished for those mistakes". WHY NOT ? .
If a defender makes an honest challenge on a striker and fouls him it`s a penalty that`s a punishment for poor play , or should that be mistake ? . I`m very confused here , so all 22 players both managers and all 6 subs and coaching staff on the line can be "punished " by the ref for what might be a genuine "mistake " but heaven forbid the ref should be held to the same conditions

No referee, no game of football. Players are actively trying to deceive them, whether they're claiming fouls which didn't happen or claiming a corner when it's a goal kick. It's a very difficult job to do and it's very difficult for young referees to climb the ladder. The whole structure of refereeing needs to be overhauled and far better incentivised. But players also bear some of the burden in the low/poor standard of refereeing through their outright attempts to cheat, however small it may seem to them.

 

[vagabond]

That was such a blatant penalty that the only question was, why didn't the referee see it in real time?

The main question is why 3 mins of additional injury time was played in the first place…