Man Shot Dead On The Tube

[Safeway]

Good choice of smilie.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

He wouldnt say but has to be I think

There are plenty of different units, police and defence related who it could have been.

All I can say is I'm grateful we live in a country which has enough respect for human life to still be shocked when someone dies at the hands of the state. If this had happened in the US, nobody would have batted an eyelid as the police shoot people all the time.

God forbid we go down that road.

Who'd be a firearms officer, can any of us really imagine having to make those kind of life or death decisions?

Presumably if those guys had a real belief the bloke yesterday had a bomb, they had to weigh up the possibility of them being wrong against the chances of him causing carnage in a crowded train, and potentially killing loads of innocent people. His actions determined their response, and he made the decision to run for it.

One life or twenty, thirty, forty+ etc. Who'd want to make that call when the pressure's on?

 

[clapham_gull]

Well I'm going to be controversial and say that if he didn't understand the word 'stop' then he shouldn't have been here at all.

Pray that it doesn't happen to you then when you're on holiday somewhere where you don't speak the language.

What a f*cking stupid thing to say.

Controversial ? You wish, just ignorant.

Early reports say that the guy was from Brazil. There is huge (biggest in the country) Portugese speaking community in Stockwell and around here where I live. He wouldn't have been in the least bit out of place down here.

Terrible tragedy for the man, his family and the policeman involved.

Thank God the tube driver, who also ran away (and had a gun held to his head), is alive to tell the tale.

If this all turns out to be true, this is one hell of a cock-up irrespective of the circumstances. Yesterday we were being told that the guy had "definate links"

I walk to Stockwell station every morning. I don't want to live in a community where I'm in danger of being blown up, or in a community where the security services are firing 5 bullets into the head of a Brazillian because he "ran away".

 

[Safeway]

Pray that it doesn't happen to you then when you're on holiday somewhere where you don't speak the language.

What a f*cking stupid thing to say.

Controversial ? You wish, just ignorant.

Early reports say that the guy was from Brazil. There is huge (biggest in the country) Portugese speaking community in Stockwell and around here where I live. He wouldn't have been in the least bit out of place down here.

Terrible tragedy for the man, his family and the policeman involved.

Thank God the tube driver, who also ran away (and had a gun held to his head), is alive to tell the tale.

Fair comment. My bad.

 

[clapham_gull]

The man shot dead was Joao Alves Menazes, a Brallizian national.

He was an electrician on his way to work.

The police were monitoring a house in Tulse Hill South London from which he left.

He took a bus to Stockwell, got off presumably to take the tube,

No links to terrorism, confirmed by the MET.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

An appalling shame for all concerned. The guy probably didn't even think about the fact that they might be police or security services (they were not Special Forces), just that he was being shouted at and chased by some blokes. How many of us have been outnumbered and legged it, thinking we were in for a kicking, especially in the bad old '80s against some of the London teams. And yes, I've run into the nearest place that had lots of people, like tube stations, thinking that I would be safer with lots of witnesses.

Bad for him, and bad for the people that chased him down and shot him - how many other people can say what their actions would be in that situation? Bearing in mind that you can hardly train for live situations within the firearms community, the best he could have managed was rangework, video scenarios, and blank walkthroughs - which, with the best will in the world, is not the same as thinking that if someone presses a button, you and 30 others are going up in smoke unless you take action.

It's a nervous time, and I think that most people can think themselves lucky that they are not responsible for making decisions like this.

 

[clapham_gull]

Now named as Jean Charles de Menezes 27 by the BBC.

I doubt this was a drawn out chase, the bus stops right outside the station.

 

[Gritt23]

It's a very very sad situation. Have we really become this anxious already that we are already on a "shoot to kill" against citizens we have the vaguest suspicion of.

Blimey, it kind of puts into perspective how there are atrocities on both sides between Israelis and Palestinians. Previously I've just shaken my head at how the authorities deal with things out there, but we have resorted to it after one attack. They've endured a life like this for decades.

Have they announced details of Mr de Menezes family? How on Earth would you explain to a young child what has happened to their dad?

 

[Ernest]

Shoot to kill

 

[Beach Hut]

Shoot to kill

Attention seeking alert

 

[Ernest]

Attention seeking alert

I personally agree with shoot to kill , sort a few drug dealers out, a few shoplifters too and anyone innocent gets shot then pay them a bit of compo

 

[Porky]

As an ex Para it smells very much like SAS to me.

 

[clapham_gull]

At the moment pretty angry this has been allowed to happen ten minutes away from where I'm typing now, irrespective of the current circumstances.

I should wait for the inquiry, but there's something nagging away at me. If they suspected him to be a suicide bomber why did they allow him to board a bus to Stockwell ?

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

Sorry, I feel for the guys family, but, police ask him to stop, he jumps a barrier, legs it down towards a train wearing a large coat (this is only the reports I have read). Given the fact the police had reason to be watching his house and had a reasonable reason to ask him to stop.

If he HAD been wired and intent on blowing up a train, how would the police have known as he just ran towards the train, he may have detonated said bomb when on the ground, taking the train carriage, some civilians and police with him.

All I want to know is why he ran, given the fact I don't speak portuguese and say I was in Brazil, and the police shouted at me, pointed guns at me or whatever they may have done, I am sure I wouldn't have legged it. I'd have had my hands wrapped round the moon they would have been that high.

Don't get all santimonious and blame the police for doing this given all the circumstances.

Do people really think they did it for a bit of practice, or having a laugh... FFS

 

[Beach Hut]

I don't blame the Met at all.

As posted earlier they have to make split decisions and under the law of averages sometimes they will be wrong.

 

[clapham_gull]

I suspect it will be the decision making that led up to the poor policemen having to make such a "split decision" that will under the microscope.

 

[clapham_gull]

pictured far right

The "chubby Asian" guy that eye witnesses reported.

 

[NMH]

I suspect it will be the decision making that led up to the poor policemen having to make such a "split decision" that will under the microscope.

They are TRAINED to do that, and they had him on the ground, and they now have some explaining to do.
Unless this Brasileiro was samba-ing with a few pounds of explosive or has a name like 'Enrique Ali Alzakara' then it appears the bill have made a massive fuq up and have only added another innocent to the death-toll to the pleasure of the bomber-types who will enjoy this reaction to their evil work no end.

Another thing; who would NOT want to run from a group of serious looking geezers heading straight at him with nasty "we are really gonna take care of you now my old son" looks on their faces. I heard that another bloke at the scene scarpered pronto as well.

The ramifications are that the rozzers have unwittingly done some more of the work that these terrorists started.
That is just too f***ing stupid, if found to be so.

 

[clapham_gull]

They are TRAINED to do that, and they had him on the ground, and they now have some explaining to do.
Unless this Brasileiro was samba-ing with a few pounds of explosive or has a name like 'Enrique Ali Alzakara' then it appears the bill have made a massive fuq up and have only added another innocent to the death-toll to the pleasure of the bomber-types who will enjoy this reaction to their evil work no end.

Another thing; who would NOT want to run from a group of serious looking geezers heading straight at him with nasty "we are really gonna take care of you now my old son" looks on their faces. I heard that another bloke at the scene scarpered pronto as well.

The ramifications are that the rozzers have unwittingly done some more of the work that these terrorists started.
That is just too f***ing stupid, if found to be so.

I'm finding it hard not to agree with you. Around here is the biggest Portugeuse speaking population in London, probably the UK. A ten minute walk from the station is an area known as "Little Portugal". Even under the circumstances, a complete f*** up no question. The police force have even apologised to the tube driver who was chased up the track and had a gun pulled on his head.

 

[perseus]

What to do when faced by a miscellaneous bandit or armed lawman?

Run and get shot in the back (moving target) or surrender and get shot in the face?

You could , of course, avoid such obviously guilty actions like catching a bus, carrying a rucksack, looking a bit suntanned, or being an electrician (could be carrying a screwdriver).

PS: Next time you think it is the TV Detector Squad (black Kelvin jackets), it could be you last thought!