martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
That's bollocks according to [MENTION=14574]daveinprague[/MENTION]
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Malaysian airline crash
- Thread starter surrey jim
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That's bollocks according to [MENTION=14574]daveinprague[/MENTION]
daveinprague
New member
Cheers Peter...
Me and my GF run the main Ukrainian nightclub here...to be honest, im a bit wary about starting conversations on the issue due to past issues with groups of Russians finding themselves in the wrong place etc.
We had huge problems a couple of years ago between, what my gf described as 'city ukrainians', and 'country ukrainians'...turned out that was the Eastern Ukrainians. So, im fairly convinced from what ive seen here that a large section of the Eastern Ukraine, wants nothing to do with the Ukraine.
Im not that convinced by the expansionism argument to be honest, however, we will see.
Me and my GF run the main Ukrainian nightclub here...to be honest, im a bit wary about starting conversations on the issue due to past issues with groups of Russians finding themselves in the wrong place etc.
We had huge problems a couple of years ago between, what my gf described as 'city ukrainians', and 'country ukrainians'...turned out that was the Eastern Ukrainians. So, im fairly convinced from what ive seen here that a large section of the Eastern Ukraine, wants nothing to do with the Ukraine.
Im not that convinced by the expansionism argument to be honest, however, we will see.
daveinprague
New member
What you suggested yesterday concerning the two fighters shot down from Russian territory was though, wasnt it.
martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
That's not what you called bollocks.
I saw the story yesterday reported on Sky and BBC and trusted journalists on twitter, I asked a question in the light of that breaking news. Are you saying the jets were not hit at altitude yesterday?
daveinprague
New member
I find theres a lot of 'bollocks' surrounding whats happening there. A lot of it from people like yourself, claiming the most outrageous things as 'fact'...when you dont really know.
Ive no idea where they were hit Martyn...I wasnt there.....you must have been. Tell me about it.
Ive no idea where they were hit Martyn...I wasnt there.....you must have been. Tell me about it.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,275
Youre not wrong about a divided country, my Mrs mate whom i mentioned above just 3 months ago, wanted to join Russia, hated Kiev and now events have led to somewhat of a damascus road........... One of first things rebels have done in every conquered area has been to turning off all ukrainian TV to be replaced by russian only, and then follows the barrage of misinformation which shapes minds.
i just care about those very poor and abused family caught up in a power struggle, and whilst they are naturally suspicious of the west and love russian culture/language, they all want peace and normality more than anything and not this shit........
martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
No I was not there but both sides have said it happened, one report at the time said the rockets came from inside Russia but I have not seen that confirmed, there are pictures and reports that the SAM's controlled by the rebels have gone back across the border since Thursday so that would seem to confirm it but if you have seen something that says different please show me.
daveinprague
New member
Nobody wants shit...some do, but they are generally nowhere near the shit. Just want more exciting tv to watch.
daveinprague
New member
If I see anything I will...wasnt that 'one report' from the Ukrainian State Defence, and Security information centre?... I personally would consider that report sketchy haha.
Creaky
Well-known member
That appears to imply that anyone who can't speak Ukrainian or don't have Ukrainian as their first language aren't citizens of the Ukraine!
dingodan
New member
- Feb 16, 2011
- 10,080
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/02/27/a-shadow-us-foreign-policy/
http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/eurasia/ukraine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democra cy
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/04/29/360580/us-laid-groundwork-for-ukraine-disaster/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27233152
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditionality
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,275
it does not imply that at all, most of donbass has Russian as their first language, Ukrainian is the official state language, courts, schools, documents etc. language chosen to speak does not affect citizenship.
All the leaders both political and military of the DNR/rebels/seperatists are russian citizens without ukrainian passports not from ukraine and who dont speak ukrainian, many of those fighting are also russian citizens not from ukraine.
nowt to do with language of choice
Creaky
Well-known member
That's what I thought - so I don't understand the following bit you posted - "Because thats whats really happening, this isnt the local pro russian ukrainian citizens population (there are a few that joined but very few), its russians, from russia who dont speak a word of ukrainian."
May well be a fact but what's the relevancy?
- Nov 11, 2009
- 12,275
Most Ukrainians will know ukrainian, even as a second language, its langauge used in schools, uni's and everything official....... none of those leading the causing of chaos speak or know ukrainian, their russian accents are as strong and distinctive as a Scot or Irishman is to you, they would likely know ukrainian, if they were Ukrainian citizens, theyre not..... its very relevant if youre from that area, these are not locals causing havoc in that locality, its further proof pointing to this being russian led on foreign soil and not locally led.
martyn20
Unwell but still smiling
BREAKING NEWS: Ukraine cabinet, including Prime Minister, resigns, citing collapse of coalition and "blocking of government initiatives".CNN
From @PzFeed on twitter
From @PzFeed on twitter
cloud
Well-known member
You're unlikely to find out what is really happening from the English language media. The security services and military will keep quiet, it'll be classified information that won't get out, certainly not to the general public. What you read in the papers is only the tip of the iceberg.
Creaky
Well-known member
Alexander khodakovsky - prior to the annexation of Crimea was the commander of the Alpha Special Unit of the Security Service of Ukraine - defected and became commander of the pro-Russian Vostok Battalion. Ukrainian Citizen? Or does Ukraine promote non-citizens to such high miltary posts?
Denis Pushilin - previously stood as a Parliamentary candidate in the Ukrainian elections of 2012 and 2013 - winning less than 1% of the vote! - is the self declared Speaker of the Parliament of the Donetsk People's Republic. Can non-citizens stand in Ukrainian Parliamentary elections?
Alexander Borodai - Prime minister of the 'Donetsk People's Republic' - Russian citizen whose only link to Ukraine was as political advisor to Sergey Aksyonov.
Sergey Aksyonov - Appointed as Prime Minister of Crimea - Born in Moldova but moved to Ukraine when he was 17, 27 years ago. Deputy director of the Eskada Company and the head of the Crimea's Greco-Roman Wrestling organisation.
Those were the first four names I found when I Googled 'Ukrainian Rebel Leaders'. Whilst Alexander Borodai certainly matches your assessment of the political and military leaders of the 'rebels' I don't see how the other three do.
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Creaky
Well-known member
You're obviously in a better position than I to judge on whether 'most Ukrainians will know Ukrainian' but that seems to be contrary to much that I have read. According to that the use of Ukrainian as a language was 'discouraged' until the break up of the USSR with Russian as compulsory subject in all schools.
According to the 2001 census the Russian Language was 'native' for about 30% of the population.
Recent polls suggest that Russian is spoken in the home by around 45% of households, (roughly the same number as speak Ukrainian), and that over 8% of the population have difficulty understanding documents written in Ukrainian.