[Politics] Liz Truss **RESIGNS 20/10/2022**

[Baldseagull]

It isnt fringe. Your avoiding my question because you cant answer it I suspect. Again, could you give me a specific example of something relating to economics that I have said which is incorrect in your view with an example of your reasoning?

It is fringe, because it is false. Let me ask you a question, why does anything have any value?

 

[BenGarfield]

It is fringe, because it is false. Let me ask you a question, why does anything have any value?

Because I assign importance to it - its subjective. I value the skill of Mitoma but not that of Graeme Smith. It has nothing to do with money if thats what your getting at. Explain to me why you consider MMT to be false?

 

[beorhthelm]

you're clearly a recent convert, what with all that boyish enthusiasm

why has mmt been heavily criticized by many mainstream economists?

to be fair, economists usually just ignore it as it adds nothing but noise. we know money is a medium of exchange, people trade, create value, governments tax and spend some of that. any other theory of money needs to explain how it works in all scenarios.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I can only assume that in his frustration with the political posting on the board, Bozza's decided to make the existing threads f***ing unreadable.

 

[um bongo molongo]

Sir Max is my favourite author, I’ve had the pleasure of meeting twice and I enjoy listening to his opinions whilst not always agreeing with obviously. Rather than cite “3rd division talent” and all that, I do think we need to stop always (always) blaming the Politicians and start looking a bit closer to home. For who else votes them into power? We have created this mess. That’s the bottom line. To think millions still believe Boris should be given a 2nd chance! Sake, the electorate are more fickle than football fans seemingly! There is hope though. Yesterday I nearly crashed the car when a young Tory MP on the radio actually took responsibility, apologised and admitted they’d made a serious misjudgement backing Truss. Maybe politics is now so sick that MPs ready to give honesty a go?!

I completely agree with this. And would add that as a country we’ve made the job of MP really unattractive - they get constant abuse (including a genuine threat to their lives); have seemingly no right to privacy (or for their families); are constantly lumped together with their peers by being told ‘they’re all the same’, and have to communicate in toddler-like language to a press/electorate who have totally lost any appetite for grown up debate on what are usually complex issues. And on top of that the role is poorly paid vs other similar level private sector jobs (look at PM vs CEO packages). So can we be surprised at the poor quality of the current crop, as only a power-hungry egomaniac would ever want to do it.

 

[sparkie]

Bozza just reinstated me so now I can reply after having set up an alternative Truss thread. Firstly, I dont insist on long interchanges about MMT. As I have pointed out many times MMT is entirely relevant to this thread as it exposes in many different ways how utterly cr*p the governments policies are

Oh well. On ignore you go. Lol.

 

[BenGarfield]

you're clearly a recent convert, what with all that boyish enthusiasm

why has mmt been heavily criticized by many mainstream economists? Y

Instead of actually addressing the argument you seem to persist in making slightly patronising ad hominem quips such as "boyish enthuasiasm" etc. instead of actually debating in a reasoned way.

Many so-called mainstream economists oppose the MMT lens I suspect because they feel threatened by it. They have a lot of personal capital, job worth, etc invested in adherence to the current neo-liberal paradigm.. The level of critiques I have read or seen in on line discussions etc are surprisingly little better than the North Stand Chat, e.g its just b****cks, or like you "its just false" - so your in good company!

I`m not convinced that you really understand what MMT so again, why do you think false?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Instead of actually addressing the argument you seem to persist in making slightly patronising ad hominem quips such as "boyish enthuasiasm" etc. instead of actually debating in a reasoned way.

Many so-called mainstream economists oppose the MMT lens I suspect because they feel threatened by it. They have a lot of personal capital, job worth, etc invested in adherence to the current neo-liberal paradigm.. The level of critiques I have read or seen in on line discussions etc are surprisingly little better than the North Stand Chat, e.g its just b****cks, or like you "its just false" - so your in good company!

I`m not convinced that you really understand what MMT so again, why do you think false?

They oppose it because there's no mathematical model for it and, despite it starting from a real world truth (in certain countries) its never been done because it would cause hyper inflation. Simple as that.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

Was thinking this morning.
How can the Conservatives possibly win an election again after losing economic credibility, the cornerstone of their historical power.

Given how hungry they are to be in government is it even feasible that they become a rejoin EU party in a few years or even sooner?

 

[Eric the meek]

This is the thinking within the BBC.

'Who is in charge? Liz Truss or Jeremy Hunt?'

Who is in charge? Liz Truss or Jeremy Hunt?

The new chancellor has junked the prime minister's economic strategy in 24 hours, writes Laura Kuenssberg.

www.bbc.co.uk

​

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Sir Max is my favourite author, I’ve had the pleasure of meeting twice and I enjoy listening to his opinions whilst not always agreeing with obviously. Rather than cite “3rd division talent” and all that, I do think we need to stop always (always) blaming the Politicians and start looking a bit closer to home. For who else votes them into power? We have created this mess. That’s the bottom line. To think millions still believe Boris should be given a 2nd chance! Sake, the electorate are more fickle than football fans seemingly! There is hope though. Yesterday I nearly crashed the car when a young Tory MP on the radio actually took responsibility, apologised and admitted they’d made a serious misjudgement backing Truss. Maybe politics is now so sick that MPs ready to give honesty a go?!

I partly agree with you. The electorate are partly to blame for getting us into this mess. Two groups of voters in particular - those that vote along X Factor lines and vote for popularist candidates and those that would vote for a xxx ( select an animal of your choice ) just as long as it was wearing the correct colour rosette. It would be a far better situation if everyone was a floating voter.

BUT it is not helped by the poor quality of candidates - when you have a choice of bloody awful, uttely terrible and f***ing dire on the ballot paper - as many often do - we're in trouble regardless.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Instead of actually addressing the argument you seem to persist in making slightly patronising ad hominem quips such as "boyish enthuasiasm" etc. instead of actually debating in a reasoned way.

Many so-called mainstream economists oppose the MMT lens I suspect because they feel threatened by it. They have a lot of personal capital, job worth, etc invested in adherence to the current neo-liberal paradigm.. The level of critiques I have read or seen in on line discussions etc are surprisingly little better than the North Stand Chat, e.g its just b****cks, or like you "its just false" - so your in good company!

I`m not convinced that you really understand what MMT so again, why do you think false?

There is a reason that you are unhappy with the the level crtiques regards MMT. It’s because it is bollocks and the type of monetary theory favourerd by 3rd World dictators … end off. BTW, anyone that uses the ‘current neo-liberal paradigm’ in an argument is immediately suspect in my book.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

They oppose it because there's no mathematical model for it and, despite it starting from a real world truth (in certain countries) its never been done because it would cause hyper inflation. Simple as that.

It has been partly done - both post WWI Germany and Zimbabwee decided they could print money galore to solve their problems. As you say , it caused hyper inflation. So much so a loaf of bread doubled in price each day and in Germany it was cheaper to wallpaper a room in cash than wallpaper.

 

[jakarta]

Whichever Party can restore some stability to the Financial Markets, seeing as I'm taking my Pension at the end of next year and the Pot has lost 25K since Truss got in, will get my Vote. I always wanted Sunak rather than Truss, he may not the most pleasant character, but his time in No.11 wasn't a clusterfuck as opposed to what we have now.

As for the current situation as Paul Calf would say...



Presume the Student in the Chippy was Mr.Garfield?

 

[WATFORD zero]

It has been partly done - both post WWI Germany and Zimbabwee decided they could print money galore to solve their problems. As you say , it caused hyper inflation. So much so a loaf of bread doubled in price each day and in Germany it was cheaper to wallpaper a room in cash than wallpaper.

I've started doing the spare room in tenners ready for when Suella becomes chancellor

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I've started doing the spare room in tenners ready for when Suella becomes chancellor

I'll be over Monday - both for dinner and to admire ( sorry, strip ) your spare room.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Just back from a weeks cheapo holiday in the med. Tried to avoid politics with people I don't know, but from conversation i had with people where the subject came up and also those overheard the tories are f***ed. People just see Truss as an absolute joke, but more importantly the overwhelming majority opinion is the conservatives couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, and the party is a joke

 

[portlock seagull]

I partly agree with you. The electorate are partly to blame for getting us into this mess. Two groups of voters in particular - those that vote along X Factor lines and vote for popularist candidates and those that would vote for a xxx ( select an animal of your choice ) just as long as it was wearing the correct colour rosette. It would be a far better situation if everyone was a floating voter.

BUT it is not helped by the poor quality of candidates - when you have a choice of bloody awful, uttely terrible and f***ing dire on the ballot paper - as many often do - we're in trouble regardless.

Yep, for me the system isn’t fit for purpose and needs revolutionary levels of change. But in the absence of that, it would help if we the electorate didn’t vote for the same old hoping we’re not then served the same old. Think someone once said that’s the very definition of insanity.

 

[portlock seagull]

I completely agree with this. And would add that as a country we’ve made the job of MP really unattractive - they get constant abuse (including a genuine threat to their lives); have seemingly no right to privacy (or for their families); are constantly lumped together with their peers by being told ‘they’re all the same’, and have to communicate in toddler-like language to a press/electorate who have totally lost any appetite for grown up debate on what are usually complex issues. And on top of that the role is poorly paid vs other similar level private sector jobs (look at PM vs CEO packages). So can we be surprised at the poor quality of the current crop, as only a power-hungry egomaniac would ever want to do it.

Very well articulated, some excellent points made.

 

[beorhthelm]

Instead of actually addressing the argument you seem to persist in making slightly patronising ad hominem quips such as "boyish enthuasiasm" etc. instead of actually debating in a reasoned way.

Many so-called mainstream economists oppose the MMT lens I suspect because they feel threatened by it. They have a lot of personal capital, job worth, etc invested in adherence to the current neo-liberal paradigm.. The level of critiques I have read or seen in on line discussions etc are surprisingly little better than the North Stand Chat, e.g its just b****cks, or like you "its just false" - so your in good company!

I`m not convinced that you really understand what MMT so again, why do you think false?

you have repeatedly failed to set out what MMT means, or how it can help. just hit and run tactics "government doesnt need to borrow" then hide from any questions. if you want to make any headway, you need to explain the proposition.
i note you recognise a different paradigm in place. therefore you accept MMT as an alternative, one possible way to model economic behaviours, not the defining theory of money. that might be a better place to start, describing an alternative rather than inisting its simply correct with no evidence.