Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Politics] Liz Truss **RESIGNS 20/10/2022**



Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
11,839
Crawley
It isnt fringe. Your avoiding my question because you cant answer it I suspect. Again, could you give me a specific example of something relating to economics that I have said which is incorrect in your view with an example of your reasoning?
It is fringe, because it is false. Let me ask you a question, why does anything have any value?
 




BenGarfield

Active member
Feb 22, 2019
343
crawley
It is fringe, because it is false. Let me ask you a question, why does anything have any value?
Because I assign importance to it - its subjective. I value the skill of Mitoma but not that of Graeme Smith. It has nothing to do with money if thats what your getting at. Explain to me why you consider MMT to be false?
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,955
you're clearly a recent convert, what with all that boyish enthusiasm

why has mmt been heavily criticized by many mainstream economists?
to be fair, economists usually just ignore it as it adds nothing but noise. we know money is a medium of exchange, people trade, create value, governments tax and spend some of that. any other theory of money needs to explain how it works in all scenarios.
 




um bongo molongo

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2004
3,048
Battersea
Sir Max is my favourite author, I’ve had the pleasure of meeting twice and I enjoy listening to his opinions whilst not always agreeing with obviously. Rather than cite “3rd division talent” and all that, I do think we need to stop always (always) blaming the Politicians and start looking a bit closer to home. For who else votes them into power? We have created this mess. That’s the bottom line. To think millions still believe Boris should be given a 2nd chance! Sake, the electorate are more fickle than football fans seemingly! There is hope though. Yesterday I nearly crashed the car when a young Tory MP on the radio actually took responsibility, apologised and admitted they’d made a serious misjudgement backing Truss. Maybe politics is now so sick that MPs ready to give honesty a go?!
I completely agree with this. And would add that as a country we’ve made the job of MP really unattractive - they get constant abuse (including a genuine threat to their lives); have seemingly no right to privacy (or for their families); are constantly lumped together with their peers by being told ‘they’re all the same’, and have to communicate in toddler-like language to a press/electorate who have totally lost any appetite for grown up debate on what are usually complex issues. And on top of that the role is poorly paid vs other similar level private sector jobs (look at PM vs CEO packages). So can we be surprised at the poor quality of the current crop, as only a power-hungry egomaniac would ever want to do it.
 




sparkie

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2003
13,219
Hove
Bozza just reinstated me so now I can reply after having set up an alternative Truss thread. Firstly, I dont insist on long interchanges about MMT. As I have pointed out many times MMT is entirely relevant to this thread as it exposes in many different ways how utterly cr*p the governments policies are
Oh well. On ignore you go. Lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cjd


BenGarfield

Active member
Feb 22, 2019
343
crawley
you're clearly a recent convert, what with all that boyish enthusiasm

why has mmt been heavily criticized by many mainstream economists? Y

Instead of actually addressing the argument you seem to persist in making slightly patronising ad hominem quips such as "boyish enthuasiasm" etc. instead of actually debating in a reasoned way.

Many so-called mainstream economists oppose the MMT lens I suspect because they feel threatened by it. They have a lot of personal capital, job worth, etc invested in adherence to the current neo-liberal paradigm.. The level of critiques I have read or seen in on line discussions etc are surprisingly little better than the North Stand Chat, e.g its just b****cks, or like you "its just false" - so your in good company!

I`m not convinced that you really understand what MMT so again, why do you think false?
 


Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
37,204
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Instead of actually addressing the argument you seem to persist in making slightly patronising ad hominem quips such as "boyish enthuasiasm" etc. instead of actually debating in a reasoned way.

Many so-called mainstream economists oppose the MMT lens I suspect because they feel threatened by it. They have a lot of personal capital, job worth, etc invested in adherence to the current neo-liberal paradigm.. The level of critiques I have read or seen in on line discussions etc are surprisingly little better than the North Stand Chat, e.g its just b****cks, or like you "its just false" - so your in good company!

I`m not convinced that you really understand what MMT so again, why do you think false?
They oppose it because there's no mathematical model for it and, despite it starting from a real world truth (in certain countries) its never been done because it would cause hyper inflation. Simple as that.
 




Barnet Seagull

Luxury Player
Jul 14, 2003
5,981
Falmer, soon...
Was thinking this morning.
How can the Conservatives possibly win an election again after losing economic credibility, the cornerstone of their historical power.

Given how hungry they are to be in government is it even feasible that they become a rejoin EU party in a few years or even sooner? 🤔
 




Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,488
The arse end of Hangleton
Sir Max is my favourite author, I’ve had the pleasure of meeting twice and I enjoy listening to his opinions whilst not always agreeing with obviously. Rather than cite “3rd division talent” and all that, I do think we need to stop always (always) blaming the Politicians and start looking a bit closer to home. For who else votes them into power? We have created this mess. That’s the bottom line. To think millions still believe Boris should be given a 2nd chance! Sake, the electorate are more fickle than football fans seemingly! There is hope though. Yesterday I nearly crashed the car when a young Tory MP on the radio actually took responsibility, apologised and admitted they’d made a serious misjudgement backing Truss. Maybe politics is now so sick that MPs ready to give honesty a go?!
I partly agree with you. The electorate are partly to blame for getting us into this mess. Two groups of voters in particular - those that vote along X Factor lines and vote for popularist candidates and those that would vote for a xxx ( select an animal of your choice ) just as long as it was wearing the correct colour rosette. It would be a far better situation if everyone was a floating voter.

BUT it is not helped by the poor quality of candidates - when you have a choice of bloody awful, uttely terrible and f***ing dire on the ballot paper - as many often do - we're in trouble regardless.
 




Deportivo Seagull

I should coco
Jul 22, 2003
5,413
Mid Sussex
Instead of actually addressing the argument you seem to persist in making slightly patronising ad hominem quips such as "boyish enthuasiasm" etc. instead of actually debating in a reasoned way.

Many so-called mainstream economists oppose the MMT lens I suspect because they feel threatened by it. They have a lot of personal capital, job worth, etc invested in adherence to the current neo-liberal paradigm.. The level of critiques I have read or seen in on line discussions etc are surprisingly little better than the North Stand Chat, e.g its just b****cks, or like you "its just false" - so your in good company!

I`m not convinced that you really understand what MMT so again, why do you think false?

There is a reason that you are unhappy with the the level crtiques regards MMT. It’s because it is bollocks and the type of monetary theory favourerd by 3rd World dictators … end off. BTW, anyone that uses the ‘current neo-liberal paradigm’ in an argument is immediately suspect in my book.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,488
The arse end of Hangleton
They oppose it because there's no mathematical model for it and, despite it starting from a real world truth (in certain countries) its never been done because it would cause hyper inflation. Simple as that.
It has been partly done - both post WWI Germany and Zimbabwee decided they could print money galore to solve their problems. As you say , it caused hyper inflation. So much so a loaf of bread doubled in price each day and in Germany it was cheaper to wallpaper a room in cash than wallpaper.
 


jakarta

Well-known member
May 25, 2007
15,737
Sullington
Whichever Party can restore some stability to the Financial Markets, seeing as I'm taking my Pension at the end of next year and the Pot has lost 25K since Truss got in, will get my Vote. I always wanted Sunak rather than Truss, he may not the most pleasant character, but his time in No.11 wasn't a clusterfuck as opposed to what we have now.

As for the current situation as Paul Calf would say...



Presume the Student in the Chippy was Mr.Garfield?
 




WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
27,607
It has been partly done - both post WWI Germany and Zimbabwee decided they could print money galore to solve their problems. As you say , it caused hyper inflation. So much so a loaf of bread doubled in price each day and in Germany it was cheaper to wallpaper a room in cash than wallpaper.
I've started doing the spare room in tenners ready for when Suella becomes chancellor :lolol:
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,488
The arse end of Hangleton
I've started doing the spare room in tenners ready for when Suella becomes chancellor :lolol:
I'll be over Monday - both for dinner and to admire ( sorry, strip ) your spare room.
 


Tom Bombadil

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2003
6,099
Jibrovia
Just back from a weeks cheapo holiday in the med. Tried to avoid politics with people I don't know, but from conversation i had with people where the subject came up and also those overheard the tories are f***ed. People just see Truss as an absolute joke, but more importantly the overwhelming majority opinion is the conservatives couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, and the party is a joke
 


portlock seagull

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2003
17,688
I partly agree with you. The electorate are partly to blame for getting us into this mess. Two groups of voters in particular - those that vote along X Factor lines and vote for popularist candidates and those that would vote for a xxx ( select an animal of your choice ) just as long as it was wearing the correct colour rosette. It would be a far better situation if everyone was a floating voter.

BUT it is not helped by the poor quality of candidates - when you have a choice of bloody awful, uttely terrible and f***ing dire on the ballot paper - as many often do - we're in trouble regardless.
Yep, for me the system isn’t fit for purpose and needs revolutionary levels of change. But in the absence of that, it would help if we the electorate didn’t vote for the same old hoping we’re not then served the same old. Think someone once said that’s the very definition of insanity.
 




portlock seagull

Well-known member
Jul 28, 2003
17,688
I completely agree with this. And would add that as a country we’ve made the job of MP really unattractive - they get constant abuse (including a genuine threat to their lives); have seemingly no right to privacy (or for their families); are constantly lumped together with their peers by being told ‘they’re all the same’, and have to communicate in toddler-like language to a press/electorate who have totally lost any appetite for grown up debate on what are usually complex issues. And on top of that the role is poorly paid vs other similar level private sector jobs (look at PM vs CEO packages). So can we be surprised at the poor quality of the current crop, as only a power-hungry egomaniac would ever want to do it.
Very well articulated, some excellent points made.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,955
Instead of actually addressing the argument you seem to persist in making slightly patronising ad hominem quips such as "boyish enthuasiasm" etc. instead of actually debating in a reasoned way.

Many so-called mainstream economists oppose the MMT lens I suspect because they feel threatened by it. They have a lot of personal capital, job worth, etc invested in adherence to the current neo-liberal paradigm.. The level of critiques I have read or seen in on line discussions etc are surprisingly little better than the North Stand Chat, e.g its just b****cks, or like you "its just false" - so your in good company!

I`m not convinced that you really understand what MMT so again, why do you think false?
you have repeatedly failed to set out what MMT means, or how it can help. just hit and run tactics "government doesnt need to borrow" then hide from any questions. if you want to make any headway, you need to explain the proposition.
i note you recognise a different paradigm in place. therefore you accept MMT as an alternative, one possible way to model economic behaviours, not the defining theory of money. that might be a better place to start, describing an alternative rather than inisting its simply correct with no evidence.
 


Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here