[Politics] Lee Anderson goes full Oswald Mosely

[heathgate]

I predict that a large chunk of those that are claiming to vote reform will end up voting Tories, when it comes to it they won't want Labour in

Au contraire monsieur.... most realistic Conservatives likely have no expectations of avoiding an election defeat anytime soon, it is entirely possible that a drift to this alternative option, even if only for a one-time protest vote, is a real prospect....

 

[Nobby]

Agree with this.

What we don't have is the organised militarilsm which is normally associated with fascism. I don't think the occasional Braverman inspired drunken meathead, football thug, statue protection mob currently count. But I'd accept the point this is a situation to be keeping an eye on

In this day and age, risks abound and cool heads are required on all sides.

And who will keep an eye on it? And what will they do when they see a problem?

 

[Sussax]

Au contraire monsieur.... most realistic Conservatives likely have no expectations of avoiding an election defeat anytime soon, it is entirely possible that a drift to this alternative option, even if only for a one-time protest vote, is a real prospect....

This. Labour are a shoo-in and think this will lead to a larger vote for Reform and Independents.

Expect it will be similar to UKIP in 2015, relatively high % of voters, but not many/any seats and they’ll disappear if the Tories get their act even slightly together.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Reminder that he was a Labour Party member up until 2018 (the main organiser of the then Labour MP) and was accused by all the media of being driven out of Labour by Jeremy Corbyn

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

In an interview with the right-leaning Spectator shortly before his appointment, Anderson proudly proclaimed that the UK should bring back the death penalty because “nobody has ever committed a crime after being executed”.

“You know that don’t you? 100 per cent success rate,” he added.

And ;


“If they don’t like the accommodation, they can get on a dinghy back to France” Lee told Braverman.

Just don't agree.

Belief in the death penalty and a strong anti-immigration stance aren't enough in themselves to be using these sort of words

These are fascist comments. If you argue they are not, it’s likely because you hold the same views and don’t want to be recognised as a fascist.

Silly comment. We can debate this without smearing each other

I accept your earlier point about the need for vigilance and the risk of sliding into a much worse situation than we currently have

 

[heathgate]

This. Labour are a shoo-in and think this will lead to a larger vote for Reform and Independents.

Expect it will be similar to UKIP in 2015, relatively high % of voters, but not many/any seats and they’ll disappear if the Tories get their act even slightly together.

Exactly my point.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I find it odd a lot of socialists on this forum think a politician who is politically centre right is a fascist like Oswald Moseley. Just because someone is centre right doesn't make them far right or a fascist. On a scale of 1 to 10, someone who is centre left is possibly a 4 or 5 and someone centre right is possibly a 6 or 7 out of 10. Someone far right would be an 8, 9 or 10 out of 10. A bit of perspective is needed.

The current Tory goverment keeps piching Labour's policies. There is probably little difference between Sunak's and Starmer's policies . I would say both leaders are centre left in their outlooks, even if they have had different upbringings. I would score both 5 out of 10.

There is no centre right in Tory party because they have all been marginalised by the hard right. You say a bit of perspective is needed, I would agree but only in that the Tory party isn’t the Tory party of 15 years ago. Even Thatcher would be horrified by this bunch of chancers and racists. Basically the right have trashed the Tory party to make way for Reform party, the upside being that they are now in full view so we can see what they really are.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Just don't agree.

Belief in the death penalty and a strong anti-immigration stance aren't enough in themselves to be using these sort of words



Silly comment. We can debate this without smearing each other

I accept your earlier point about the need for vigilance and the risk of sliding into a much worse situation than we currently have

Read this article from Saturday about Michael Gove, and his definition of extremism, wanting to ban such people.

Organisations and individuals that breach a new official definition of extremism will be excluded from meetings or any engagement with ministers, senior civil servants, government advisory boards and funding.

Councils will be expected to follow the government’s lead, cutting any financial ties or support to individuals or groups that have been categorised as extremist.

Revealed: legal fears over Michael Gove’s new definition of ‘extremism’

The communities secretary wants ‘trailblazer’ government departments to pilot a scheme to ban individuals and groups deemed extremist from public life

www.theguardian.com

 

[nicko31]

The only real difference between the NF and mobs like Reform is the age we live in.

You have to be a bit smarter and not as overt these days. The language NF used won’t fly in 2024. The intent however, is EXACTLY the same.

As Michael Rosen’s poem stated...

Fascism doesn’t come in fancy dress. It doesn’t show up in jackboots and swastika tattoos. It makes itself presentable: puts on a suit, borrows a tie. It comes kissing babies and handing out hats. It goes by new names: alt-this, freedom-that.

I still think Farage becoming Tory leader is a real possibility

 

[Brovion]

Anderson and George Galloway are, to use Galloway's own description (of Sunak and Starmer), "Two cheeks of the same arse".

 

[Baldrick]

The centre right like Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry, Philip Hammond, Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart, and the other 16 MPs who were forced out by Boris Johnson in 2019?

Some people would say the politicians you have mentioned apart from Ken Clarke are centre left and really Lib Dems who joined the Tory party in order to get elected to parliament. It's a matter of opinion.

 

[vegster]

Good old Lee, the Bigot moves on to his third political party. Can't wait for him to do the decent thing and test his mettle at the ballot box.. hopefully he's toast.

 

[BLOCK F]

Whatever anybody thinks, after a heavy GE defeat, if the Tory party want to get back into power, and they will want to, they will eventually have to come to their senses and regain their centre right credentials. Thankfully, the vast majority of voters in this country do not like extremism, either coming from the left or right. If a few on the far right of the Tory party want to join Reform or some other weird party, then so be it. Likewise, some on the left of the Labour Party would rather see a more left approach by their party than what it is believed that Keir Starmer will represent. Given a bit of time, there will be mutterings of dissatisfaction and a few dinosaurs will do what they have always done, but when shit comes to shove, thankfully, the centre ground will win the day, whether it is centre left or centre right.

 

[heathgate]

Whatever anybody thinks, after a heavy GE defeat, if the Tory party want to get back into power, and they will want to, they will eventually have to come to their senses and regain their centre right credentials. Thankfully, the vast majority of voters in this country do not like extremism, either coming from the left or right. If a few on the far right of the Tory party want to join Reform or some other weird party, then so be it. Likewise, some on the left of the Labour Party would rather see a more left approach by their party than what it is believed that Keir Starmer will represent. Given a bit of time, there will be mutterings of dissatisfaction and a few dinosaurs will do what they have always done, but when shit comes to shove, thankfully, the centre ground will win the day, whether it is centre left or centre right.

The Conservatives are absolutely still a centre right party.... those further to the right still have their say of course, they still get voted in, but they are a minority.... if you think they are a far right party, you need to look at the far right parties across Europe... AFD for example, they are proper far right entities.....

You are seemingly following the vocal left social media crowd.. "if you don't support Corbyn or at least read the Guardian daily, you are a fascist"..... laughable.

Believing in a free market economy, free speech and have a patriotic attitude towards your nation, does not make you an effin Nazi.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The Conservatives are absolutely still a centre right party.... those further to the right still have their say of course, they still get voted in, but they are a minority.... if you think they are a far right party, you need to look at the far right parties across Europe... AFD for example, they are proper far right entities.....

You are seemingly following the vocal left social media crowd.. "if you don't support Corbyn or at least read the Guardian daily, you are a fascist"..... laughable.

Believing in a free market economy, free speech and have a patriotic attitude towards your nation, does not make you an effin Nazi.

Free market economy I'll give you. Labour currently believe in a version of that though, and the Lib Dems believe in almost exactly the same. So far, so 'tacit centrist'.

The problems come with the latter two. Free speech? Only if you agree with them. While GB News is the biggest right wing echo chamber ever known, Braverman is trying to stop peaceful protest, unless it agrees with her POV. And I'd argue that trying to change the law to define something as 'safe' that has been ruled unsafe by the highest court in the land is a version of patriotism that wants to override the country's courts in order to pack a few brown people off to Rwanda. Authoritarian, in breach of international law, populist nonsense. It conforms with every definition of fascism.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Lee Anderson's had more parties than Elton John.

 

[jcdenton08]

The internet has put paid to free speech. We’ve seen it on here, let alone absolute cesspits like Twitter.

“Cancellation” has killed open debate. All it takes is a few thousand people on a mission on Twitter to wilfully misinterpret any argument (or about six on here, pro-rata’d down).

The problem is relative anonymity of the internet and a victim culture. Reasonable debate and compromise is lost to the ages - now it’s one extreme or the other.

So you end up with the Tories shifting further right, grass roots socialists shifting further left - and moderates in the middle scratching their heads where it all went wrong.

Oh and 50p Lee is a cretin and I don’t like him.

 

[el punal]

After starting out in labour, via a stint with the tories, Anderson is about to join the new British fascists. Heartwarming scenes.

Mosely went Tory, Labour, Fascist, so there is a small difference. And unlike Mosely, Anderson does not have the 'breeding' (or sense of entitlement to be precise) to presume to become leader.

The question is whether Sunk's reaction will be to follow his brain (and draw the tories back to the centre) or follow his other brain and attempt to 'out-****' the facists with new ludicrous right wing policies. My money is on the latter

You do realise that black shirts are sooo last year, dahling!

 

[Pavilionaire]

The internet has put paid to free speech. We’ve seen it on here, let alone absolute cesspits like Twitter.

“Cancellation” has killed open debate. All it takes is a few thousand people on a mission on Twitter to wilfully misinterpret any argument (or about six on here, pro-rata’d down).

The problem is relative anonymity of the internet and a victim culture. Reasonable debate and compromise is lost to the ages - now it’s one extreme or the other.

So you end up with the Tories shifting further right, grass roots socialists shifting further left - and moderates in the middle scratching their heads where it all went wrong.

Oh and 50p Lee is a cretin and I don’t like him.

I agree with you totally. At a time when the Tories are imploding, when traditional centrist Tories have been left behind / expelled and when we are yet to see any upside of Brexit the Lib Dems are still trotting along at the same 9-10% in the polls as they were 5 years ago.

Go back 15-20 years and with this set of circumstances they'd be on 25%.

It is ironic that historically the Lib Dems have been dismissed as a party that will never get into power, yet UKIP - who have only ever had 2 MPs - have shaped British politics for the last decade.

 

[heathgate]

Free market economy I'll give you. Labour currently believe in a version of that though, and the Lib Dems believe in almost exactly the same. So far, so 'tacit centrist'.

The problems come with the latter two. Free speech? Only if you agree with them. While GB News is the biggest right wing echo chamber ever known, Braverman is trying to stop peaceful protest, unless it agrees with her POV. And I'd argue that trying to change the law to define something as 'safe' that has been ruled unsafe by the highest court in the land is a version of patriotism that wants to override the country's courts in order to pack a few brown people off to Rwanda. Authoritarian, in breach of international law, populist nonsense. It conforms with every definition of fascism.

Cancel culture doesn't have it's roots in the local Conservative Club does it?,....... Seething pseudo Marxists in student union across the country ( via the US) are the source of that particular contribution to free speech and debate.