[Politics] Labour Anti Semitism - Against the faith or the Israeli State?

[RossyG]

Similarly, if anyone can recommend a book that elaborates on Swansman’s post I’d be very grateful.

 

[Swansman]

The way I read and thought I understood was that it was Ransoms as well. Although some of the dates he mentions. The Jewish people in question would still have had monies themselves.

Not that I disbelieve Swansman but I am going to try and check if they are factual.

A friend of mine. Her family managed to leave Germany through Switzerland and her Father and Grandfather worked in the banking industry. So perhaps she might be able to validate these claims for me as she is extremely knowledgeable in Jewish History.

Yes ransoms is the word.

Please fact check it. I know I checked most of these facts - gathered from books written by orthodox jews - but that was about ten years ago so I dont really have the sources available. I dont even remember what books I read, except for "The Holocaust Victims Accuse" by rabbi Moshe Shonfeld.

I'll dig into the catacombs of my computer to see if I can find more sources (knowing myself I probably got em saved somewhere).

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Aww, bless you Nev. Have a lovely day now, and don’t forget to look for another campaign trail to jump on, There are snowflakes like you just everywhere waiting to find another sucker to the cause. Never know, there might be a non binary, victims of gammon trauma group collection going on outside the Amex that you can sign up with.

There was no such collection. Enjoyed the game though.

 

[Granny on the wing]

The leadership of the Zionist entity are the true anti-semites and in some instances even Nazi collaborators and I ****ing hate that media etc finds it perfectly fine to mock Orthodox jews but dont allow a bad word about the Zionist fraction. So much history is "hidden" (though its there, official and all, if you really dig into it). Some examples of the disgusting actions and non-actions of the Zionist leadership:

In 1938 Zionist leader Golda Meir turned down Hitler's offer to let Jews leave Germany for $250 per person.

In 1940 Zionist leader Henry Ford said no to helping Jewish refugees stuck in the Danube river, saying "

In 1941 and 1942 Gestapo offers the Zionist leaders to escort Jewish families to Spain for $1000 per family (paid at arrival in Spain) with some preconditions: 1) none of the deported can go to Palestine, b) all of the deported gets asylum in USA or UK/UK colonies. The Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey who got this offer turned it down, meaning only Palestine was good enough. These leaders very well knew that the alternative to accepting this offer was the gas chambers.

In 1944 the same offer is given about the Hungarian jews, but again the Zionist leaders says no.

In December 1942 the UK parliament had a plan to move 500 000 Jews from Germany to different UK colonies. Negotiations with the German government started, but the Zionist leaders in UK said no, meaning it was not an option as long as Palestine was excluded.

16th February 1943, Romania says 70 000 Jewish refugees in the Trans-Dniestra region to leave for 50$ per person. Yitzhak Greenbaum of the Jewish Agency in Tel-Aviv said of the offer: "when they asked, could you organization help us with the money, I said no, and I say no again, you have to reject these offers that put the Zionist activity second. A cow in Palestine is more important than a thousand Jews in Europe". One week later, Stephen Wise, a zionist leader in the US, also turned the offer down.

In 1947, after the war was over, US politican William Station said they should immediatly allow 400 000 Jews still in refugee camps (refusing to move to Israel since it is against Orthodox beliefs). Zionist leaders publicly said no.

Ten years later, hundreds of thousands of Jews refusing to move to Israel still lived in refugee camps. When Canadian politician JW Pickersgill got the question "cant you open your doors for these Jews?", he said "Yes... but the Israeli government dont want us to".

The UK government gave 300 rabbis and their families visas to move to Mauritius (going through Turkey). The Jewish Agency sabotaged the plan, saying it was "disloyal against Palestine".

1941, Jews of the Israeli nationalist organisation Lehi or "Stern Gang" tells the German government they could collaborate because:
1. There could be common interest between the new, German Europe and a Zionist state in Palestine. 2. Not only common interests but collaboration would be possible between these states. 3. A deal with the German goverment considering a Zionist state could strengthen the German power in the Middle East.

They also suggested Jewish men to be trained by the German army in order to easily take over Palestine.

Mind you, the terrorists of the Stern Gang held very high positions in the Israeli state when it was formed.

Do you mean Henry Ford the car maker .He was an anti-semite but i did not know he was a Zionist leader ,i think he actually met Hitler who believed a lot of what he said about the book Protocols of the elders of zion which was a fake . Might have misunderstood your point ?

 

[Swansman]

Do you mean Henry Ford the car maker .He was an anti-semite but i did not know he was a Zionist leader ,i think he actually met Hitler who believed a lot of what he said about the book Protocols of the elders of zion which was a fake . Might have misunderstood your point ?

No, my mind went wild when translating so its a good observation from you. In my Wordpad document it says "Henry Montor", not Henry Ford, no clue why my brain changed it when translating it to put it there.

 

[daveinplzen]

Stern gang killed a considerable number of British soldiers. Nowadays, it seems to me that the people who fervently support Israel, are some of the same people who would go banana's if British soldiers were targeted by any entity. The world has certainly changed during my lifetime.

 

[Robot Chicken]

I've had my team fact checking your post and the whole thing is bullshit.

For example, the first rant about Gold Meir? Pure unadulterated bullshit. The event you're referring to is the 1938 Evian Conference. Germany was not invited, so such an offer could not have possibly been made. Furthermore, at that conference, Meir was not permitted to speak, and in her memoirs, she comments that the delegates had wanted little to do with her. Beyond that, the suggestion of such an offer being made is beyond ludicrous. As a representative to that conference for the British Mandate, she ultimately would have had zero authority to accept such an offer had it been made.

The leadership of the Zionist entity are the true anti-semites and in some instances even Nazi collaborators and I ****ing hate that media etc finds it perfectly fine to mock Orthodox jews but dont allow a bad word about the Zionist fraction. So much history is "hidden" (though its there, official and all, if you really dig into it). Some examples of the disgusting actions and non-actions of the Zionist leadership:

In 1938 Zionist leader Golda Meir turned down Hitler's offer to let Jews leave Germany for $250 per person.

In 1940 Zionist leader Henry Ford said no to helping Jewish refugees stuck in the Danube river, saying "

In 1941 and 1942 Gestapo offers the Zionist leaders to escort Jewish families to Spain for $1000 per family (paid at arrival in Spain) with some preconditions: 1) none of the deported can go to Palestine, b) all of the deported gets asylum in USA or UK/UK colonies. The Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey who got this offer turned it down, meaning only Palestine was good enough. These leaders very well knew that the alternative to accepting this offer was the gas chambers.

In 1944 the same offer is given about the Hungarian jews, but again the Zionist leaders says no.

In December 1942 the UK parliament had a plan to move 500 000 Jews from Germany to different UK colonies. Negotiations with the German government started, but the Zionist leaders in UK said no, meaning it was not an option as long as Palestine was excluded.

16th February 1943, Romania says 70 000 Jewish refugees in the Trans-Dniestra region to leave for 50$ per person. Yitzhak Greenbaum of the Jewish Agency in Tel-Aviv said of the offer: "when they asked, could you organization help us with the money, I said no, and I say no again, you have to reject these offers that put the Zionist activity second. A cow in Palestine is more important than a thousand Jews in Europe". One week later, Stephen Wise, a zionist leader in the US, also turned the offer down.

In 1947, after the war was over, US politican William Station said they should immediatly allow 400 000 Jews still in refugee camps (refusing to move to Israel since it is against Orthodox beliefs). Zionist leaders publicly said no.

Ten years later, hundreds of thousands of Jews refusing to move to Israel still lived in refugee camps. When Canadian politician JW Pickersgill got the question "cant you open your doors for these Jews?", he said "Yes... but the Israeli government dont want us to".

The UK government gave 300 rabbis and their families visas to move to Mauritius (going through Turkey). The Jewish Agency sabotaged the plan, saying it was "disloyal against Palestine".

1941, Jews of the Israeli nationalist organisation Lehi or "Stern Gang" tells the German government they could collaborate because:
1. There could be common interest between the new, German Europe and a Zionist state in Palestine. 2. Not only common interests but collaboration would be possible between these states. 3. A deal with the German goverment considering a Zionist state could strengthen the German power in the Middle East.

They also suggested Jewish men to be trained by the German army in order to easily take over Palestine.

Mind you, the terrorists of the Stern Gang held very high positions in the Israeli state when it was formed.

 

[Swansman]

I've had my team fact checking your post and the whole thing is bullshit.

For example, the first rant about Gold Meir? Pure unadulterated bullshit. The event you're referring to is the 1938 Evian Conference. Germany was not invited, so such an offer could not have possibly been made. Furthermore, at that conference, Meir was not permitted to speak, and in her memoirs, she comments that the delegates had wanted little to do with her. Beyond that, the suggestion of such an offer being made is beyond ludicrous. As a representative to that conference for the British Mandate, she ultimately would have had zero authority to accept such an offer had it been made.

Ok so now I've found the original source of my statements though I've yet to find my tracking of sources from fact checking most if not all of these statements.

The stuff I posted originally comes from Rabbi Gedalya Liebermanns article “The Role of Zionism in the Holocaust”, (supposedly - have your team check it..?) published in Wall Street Journal in December 1976. About the Evian conference he wrote:

"President Roosevelt convened the Evian conference July 6-15 1938, to deal with the Jewish refugee problem. The Jewish Agency delegation headed by Golda Meir (Meirson) ignored a German offer to allow Jews to emigrate to other countries for $250 a head, and the Zionists made no effort to influence the United States and the 32 other countries attending the conference to allow immigration of German and Austrian Jews."

While Liebermann is not exactly detailed in how or where he obtained this information - and maybe the Wall Street Journal didnt have fact checkers - he could of course be full of shit and I have no recollection of fact checking this specific statement. It could just be blatant lies by an angry anti-zionist jew.

But can I ask you about your sources other than Golda Meirs own memoirs? She is known to have been pretty twofaced, and people are not always one hundred percent honest about the circumstances regarding their own worst actions, mistakes and decisions when they are speaking or writing about themselves. So I will assume that you and the team you are speaking of have additional, more neutral sources proving she had no power at the 1938 Evian conference?

 

[portslade seagull]

Stern gang killed a considerable number of British soldiers. Nowadays, it seems to me that the people who fervently support Israel, are some of the same people who would go banana's if British soldiers were targeted by any entity. The world has certainly changed during my lifetime.

My dad was stationed there at the time. He said it wasn't nice

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Chief Rabbi massively over-egging the cake IMHO. Smells like a smear campaign. Patently Labour are at odds with certain actions of the Israeli State, as are most right-minded people, but to accuse Labour of being anti people of the Jewish faith seems to me to be utterly absurd.

 

[Live by the sea]

Chief Rabbi massively over-egging the cake IMHO. Smells like a smear campaign. Patently Labour are at odds with certain actions of the Israeli State, as are most right-minded people, but to accuse Labour of being anti people of the Jewish faith seems to me to be utterly absurd.

The chief rabbi in the UK has little to do with Israel. The UK govt has no authority over Israel and can’t really apply any pressure even if it wanted to, so I don’t concur with your argument. Most right minded People can see both sides of the ongoing conflict and appreciate the difficulties. To blanket Israel as the sole party in the wrong is both patently wrong and yes anti Semitic.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I seriously question why there's all this anti-semitism news flying around all over the place. Is there anything to it at all? It seems to me like attempting to whip up a fake outrage to try and keep the topic of conversation away from the policies and on the popularity of the candidates to be PM. Well, surely Boris Johnson being PM shows that you don't have to be popular. There is no question which party has the better policies in this election, and the desperation of the "news" media to make it personal is disingenuous. I have not seen a single reason to think there's anything anti-semitic about Jeremy Corbyn.

If there is evidence for the prosecution, let's see it - but I've no interest in personal attacks.

 

[Insel affe]

I have not seen a single reason to think there's anything anti-semitic about Jeremy Corbyn.

To some people this is enough of a reason to constantly accuse him of being anti-Semitic...

Not that I do may I add, I share his concerns on this matter.

 

[dazzer6666]

I seriously question why there's all this anti-semitism news flying around all over the place. Is there anything to it at all? It seems to me like attempting to whip up a fake outrage to try and keep the topic of conversation away from the policies and on the popularity of the candidates to be PM. Well, surely Boris Johnson being PM shows that you don't have to be popular. There is no question which party has the better policies in this election, and the desperation of the "news" media to make it personal is disingenuous. I have not seen a single reason to think there's anything anti-semitic about Jeremy Corbyn.

If there is evidence for the prosecution, let's see it - but I've no interest in personal attacks.

I don't know the facts and have an inadequate grasp of the relevant history, but have a very well-educated and very devout Jew in my team at work who gets visibly upset at the thought of Corbyn getting in (and he's not someone prone to showing much emotion at the best of times). When I'm back in the office I'm going to have a deeper chat about it with him - thanks to the above posters - fascinating to read.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I seriously question why there's all this anti-semitism news flying around all over the place. Is there anything to it at all? It seems to me like attempting to whip up a fake outrage to try and keep the topic of conversation away from the policies and on the popularity of the candidates to be PM. Well, surely Boris Johnson being PM shows that you don't have to be popular. There is no question which party has the better policies in this election, and the desperation of the "news" media to make it personal is disingenuous. I have not seen a single reason to think there's anything anti-semitic about Jeremy Corbyn.

If there is evidence for the prosecution, let's see it - but I've no interest in personal attacks.

There’s nothing fake about anti semitism within certain elements of the Labour Party. When senior members of the party (Tom Watson, Harriet Hartman to name two) accuse certain vocal elements of the party of anti semitism then you have a problem. The fact that most are part of momentum and supporters of Corbyn doesn’t help his cause.

I don’t like corbyn for a number of reasons but somewhat ironically I don’t believe he’s an anti Semite, anti Zionist most certainly (not a problem) however he does seem more than happy to give the anti Semite element of the party a great deal of leeway.

His handling of the issue has left a great deal to be desired, as has his handling of Brexit. Many words but very little action which is not something you want in a future PM.

Then again we have Boris .... chief idiot in an all party gaggle of idiots!
A car crash of party leaders.....




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[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The chief rabbi in the UK has little to do with Israel. The UK govt has no authority over Israel and can’t really apply any pressure even if it wanted to, so I don’t concur with your argument. Most right minded People can see both sides of the ongoing conflict and appreciate the difficulties. To blanket Israel as the sole party in the wrong is both patently wrong and yes anti Semitic.

Israel sole party in the wrong? Absolutely not. If cowards didn't keep lobbing rockets over the border at Israel, then they wouldn't get whacked right back with massively superior weaponry. Eye for an eye and then some. Not many people wholly comfortable with that. But that's the actions of the Zionist state. The Jewish faith is something else entirely. By all means call Labour anti Zionist. But that's a conpletely different thing to anti semitism, which existed long before the state of Israel ever did.

 

[BenGarfield]

The constant sniping about Israel whilst totally ignoring various other countries doing far worse is in itself anti Semitic .

No it isnt. As even the somewhat dubious IRHA definition of antisemitism points out:- " criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic."

 

[The Clamp]

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/09...DoSA_E0BNha1l7rSvzKy5J9opjNVgmxVDJZQwefsaVzQY

Chomsky takes apart the anti semitism smears.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I don't know the facts and have an inadequate grasp of the relevant history, but have a very well-educated and very devout Jew in my team at work who gets visibly upset at the thought of Corbyn getting in (and he's not someone prone to showing much emotion at the best of times). When I'm back in the office I'm going to have a deeper chat about it with him - thanks to the above posters - fascinating to read.

There's a Jewish runner I follow in Instagram and Strava, she is also very anti-Corbyn at all costs. Not passionate about anything else politically, but she is adamant Corbyn is an anti-Semite. I don't overly want her opinion on it because it doesn't seem particularly measured and I'd rather just enjoy her running content... but if it is because he thinks they shouldn't be unliaterally bombing Palestine as often as they do - I don't think that makes him anti-semitic more than anti-war - which I think he is, based on his protesting history, and which I agree with him about.

I think the national media attention to the story is pretty disgraceful.

 

[Robot Chicken]

but if it is because he thinks they shouldn't be unliaterally bombing Palestine as often as they do - I don't think that makes him anti-semitic more than anti-war - which I think he is, based on his protesting history, and which I agree with him about.

If you're talking about Gaza (as there is no "palestine"), then Israel only retaliates after Gaza attacks Israel. Gaza has fired tens of thousands of rockets into Israel, indiscriminately, targeting innocent civilians. As Corbyn is okay with this, I would never vote Corbyn in a million years.