[Politics] Labour Anti Semitism - Against the faith or the Israeli State?

[Neville's Breakfast]

This week Theresa May led a ceremony to put up a statue to Nancy Astor, one of the biggest antisemites ever to enter Parliament, a Hitler sympathiser. Zero complaints from anyone. This Inconsistency shows that the Press don’t care about antisemitism but merely attacking the Labour Party

I think you make a very good point. I didn’t know too much about Nancy Astor until reading this thread. She sounds appalling and no modern politician should be unveiling her statue. What I don’t quite understand is why the Guardian article I have just read tries to downplay her fascism by saying that she was a woman and that was the reason she has attracted more criticism than male MPs with similar views. Seems like crass whataboutism from a newspaper that actually does not have an anti Labour Party agenda.

 

[jackanada]

Easy answer. Any MP who has spent even 5 mins looking into this, finds out that the Palestinian right to return in practice means the end of Israel as a Jewish state simply because of the large numbers involved. There are over 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and approx 10 million Jewish people. Even if only 1% could show Palestinian heritage, you do the maths.

So yes that’s why all decent far minded MP’s understand the right of return is a complete non starter but the idea of a two state solution with Palestinian being governed by a democratic govt whilst giving security assurances to Israel that they are not going to be attacked is the right way forward.

Hamas always talk about the right of return because they want to destroy Israel and rid it of its Jewish population. They don’t even try to disguise their aims.

So yes right of return is used largely in the Muslim world and by anti semites as code for getting rid of those pesky Jews.

Well 6 - 10 million in the Palestinian diaspora. Can't imagine they'd all come back so let's say that 5 million would.
Population of Israel about 9 million, less than 2 million arabs included.
So that's a nice 50-50 split, nowhere near the upheaval of ending apartheid in South Africa.
If the founding Israelis hadn't decided to ethnically cleanse their new lands this could all have been avoided.
And yes you do hear some horrifically distateful things from Hamas. You also hear equally horrific things from members of the Israeli cabinet.

 

[Live by the sea]

This from of all newspapers the Observer today

This antisemitism poisons any good Labour might do

Simon Sebag Montefiore


It is possible to criticise Israel without being antisemitic but Corbynists are obsessed with the country’s destruction



Jeremy Corbyn on The Andrew Neil Show last month.

Last week Jeremy Corbyn made history in all the wrong ways. Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis attacked him for racism. Corbyn was asked thrice by interviewer Andrew Neil if the view that “Rothschild Zionists run world governments” was antisemitic. He struggled to condemn it. Both are unique moments.

When I was growing up my mother frequently told me to “be grateful daily to be Jewish in Britain”. That’s why, faced with the untrue claims that antisemitism was being honestly confronted in Labour, British Jews are still surprised by Corbynism and the Chief Rabbi was convinced he had to act.


His intervention is unprecedented since 1694 when Chief Rabbis were first elected – as is the Archbishop of Canterbury’s support for the Chief Rabbi. Corbynists claimed the Chief Rabbi was a Boris Johnson fan (but only cited the message all faith leaders send to new PMs). They insist Jews are exaggerating the problem. Yet nobody would question any other racial group – especially one with such a history. The Chief Rabbi represents the views of the majority of British Jews: 84% believe Labour is antisemitic; 87% that Corbyn is antisemitic; 93% won’t vote Labour.


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Yet it was the exchange about Jewish conspiracies during the Neil interview that baffled non-Jewish people – and revealed most.

“Rothschild Zionist… world government” has a dark history as a 21st-century strain of medieval racism. Evil moneylenders with mixed loyalties inspired Edward I’s terror that culminated in the hanging of 269 innocents, then the expulsion of all Jews in 1290. “Because of their crimes and honour of Crucified Jesus, the King banishes these perfidious men,” he declared. The trope of world governments of Jewish bankers derives from Russian antisemitism which was a fetish for the last Romanovs, especially Nicholas II, expressed in the forged Protocols of Elders of Zion –later recycled with murderous vigour by Hitler.

The intervention of Ephraim Mirvis is unprecedented since 1694 when Chief Rabbis were first elected
The lacing of this chalice with anti-Zionism was the work of Stalin. Obsessed with the “mystical” supranational nature of Jewishness, Stalin initially supported the creation of Israel, rightly regarding Zionism as one of the national liberation movements heralding the end of Empire, not unlike Indian nationalism. But when Israel allied with America, he turned savagely against Jews, coining the phrase “rootless cosmopolitans”, welding Zionism on to a world Jewish conspiracy of evil bankers in which Jews were not a race but a class of bloodsucking capitalists feasting on the proletariat. In 1948 he arranged a traffic accident to kill a celebrated Soviet-Jewish actor Solomon Mikhoels. In 1952 he launched the anti-Jewish doctors’ plot as the start of a new terror.

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Obviously Corbyn is no Stalin. But the mural of hooknosed Jewish bankers, alliances with antisemitic terrorists and refusal to condemn many disgusting anti-Jewish confabulations are the rotten fruit of this ideology, now oozing from Corbynists all over the internet. Corbyn himself has met with Holocaust denier Paul Eisen. Stalin refused to admit Hitler’s final solution was any different from his killing of other Soviet citizens.

Why should this Jewish problem matter to non-Jews faced with Brexit, Tories, austerity? It undermines the Labour leadership’s ability to be real progressives at all. Hostile towards Western democracies for their “imperialism”, Corbynists support dictatorships in Russia, Iran and Venezuela while claiming that what is called “antisemitism” is not anti-Jewish, merely pro-peace, pro-Palestine, anti-Israel.

That is untrue. It is fine to criticise the Israeli government without being antisemitic. British Jews support a Palestinian state alongside Israel. But Corbynists are fixated with the destruction of Israel above all other causes – and that includes a strange neglect for the plight of any other Arab peoples such as the 500,000 killed in Syria by Bashar Assad. (Emily Thornberry recently insisted on Assad’s popularity in Syria.) This is not really about Israel but a preposterous worldview that requires Jews as enemies, only making sense in a shady cavern of conspiracy theories, the stupid path that has shamed a great party.

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This racist rot poisons any good Labour might do. There are flickers of hope that calm reason can work amid Twitter shrieking. Tuesday: historian Sir Richard Evans tweeted he’d vote Labour. Thursday: after lawyer Anthony Julius wrote an open letter to the New Statesman, he courageously changed his mind.

Tragically, this is not just about one man: Labour is now controlled by this thuggish camarilla while frontbench “moderates” passively enable Corbyn. But Britain’s soul is at stake: many decent Labour supporters will surely show that they are better than the racism of their shameful shameless leadership.

And I am still grateful I was born Jewish in Britain.

Simon Sebag Montefiore’s books include Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar and Jerusalem[SUB][/SUB]

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

This from of all newspapers the Observer today

Kinda fails to mention the political outlook of Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis

“I am delighted to congratulate Boris Johnson, a longstanding friend and champion of the Jewish community, on becoming the next leader of the Conservative Party and our next Prime Minister. As he accepts upon himself the mantle of responsibility to lead our nation, may he be blessed with the wisdom to successfully navigate the political uncertainties we face and bring healing and prosperity to our great country.”

 

[borat]

The accusations of Antisemitism against Corbyn are politically motivated. 0.01% of Labour members have been suspended for AS.

Source below courtesy of Jewish Voice for Labour

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/in-summary-the-truth-behind-the-stats/

The relentless barrage of articles and coverage of the topic would naturally lead Jews to feel they are under threat.

Watch this video of Matt Hancock towing the Tory party strategy of deflecting to AS immediately.

https://twitter.com/thepileus/status/1200570480941576192?s=19




The real danger for Jews comes from far right Nationalists (as seen in the US, Hungary and Poland).

Spurious claims of AS harm the fight against it

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

The real danger for Jews comes from far right Nationalists (as seen in the US, Hungary and Poland).

Spurious claims of AS harm the fight against it

That is indeed the issue

 

[Soylent Blue]

The accusations of Antisemitism against Corbyn are politically motivated. 0.01% of Labour members have been suspended for AS.

Source below courtesy of Jewish Voice for Labour

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/in-summary-the-truth-behind-the-stats/

There were 4 comments on the page you linked before it was locked, the third comment abridged..


"...it’s a case of following the money to find out what is really behind all this. Who loses most with a Labour (or anything other than an alt-right) government in power? The Jewish diaspora contains every stripe of socioeconomic and political opinion and I suspect this hostile agenda is being pushed by those from within who want to maintain a pro-neoliberal style of low tax, low regulation government. I also strongly suspect some of this support comes from outside the UK."

None of these claims come with examples. The first sentence claims the Anti-Sematism accusations are financially driven in secret, and it comes from the Jewish diasphora (World Jewery/jewish money), this is franked by the last sentence claiming Overseas Jewish influence, again no examples given, just those who want low tax and low regulation ie Rich/capitalist global jews . the first sentence claims its about "following the money" but does not say who is at the end of it.

This contains the AS tropes of Global Jewery using money to deliberatley corrupt institutions, in this case a political party for their own narrow agenda as well as being conspiratorial.

1 in 4 comments is 25%, Labour can barely keep the lid on this.

 

[Storrington Seagull]

Quite simply anti-Semitism, however people like to define it, is totally wrong, and is rife in the comm, sorry labour party. A party fronted by a friend/sympathiser of hammas, hesbollah and someone who has shared many a platform with the ira.
Simple really.

 

[Storrington Seagull]

Rubbish. What about the comments of the chief Rabbi, or his car crash of an interview with the BBC? People also remember the misery socialism/labour brought everyone in the 1970's. Rubbish piled high in the streets? How many money trees will he have to grow for his Nationalisation fantasy to become reality? Imagine a PM negotiating a deal, then not voting for it, oh wait a minute!
corbin, abbott, McDonnell and the rest of the cronies pose the biggest threat to this country in a generation.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Quite simply anti-Semitism, however people like to define it, is totally wrong, and is rife in the comm, sorry labour party. A party fronted by a friend/sympathiser of hammas, hesbollah and someone who has shared many a platform with the ira.
Simple really.

Stupid post.

You Naz, sorry tory type.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Quite simply anti-Semitism, however people like to define it, is totally wrong, and is rife in the comm, sorry labour party.

Evidence ?

A party fronted by a friend/sympathiser of hammas, hesbollah

Evidence?

and someone who has shared many a platform with the ira.

and

Evidence ?

I have 'shared a platform' on numerous occasions with members of Sinn Fein over the years - did so a couple of weeks ago at a conference - doesn't mean that I support(ed) the actions of the IRA.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Rubbish. What about the comments of the chief Rabbi, or his car crash of an interview with the BBC? People also remember the misery socialism/labour brought everyone in the 1970's. Rubbish piled high in the streets? How many money trees will he have to grow for his Nationalisation fantasy to become reality? Imagine a PM negotiating a deal, then not voting for it, oh wait a minute!
corbin, abbott, McDonnell and the rest of the cronies pose the biggest threat to this country in a generation.

Ten years of decency under Blair.

Do you remember 'if you want a n*gger for a neighbour vote labour'?

Try dragging yourself into the 21st century. The past is chock-a-block full of ***** on all sides. It is what we have now that matters.

And, no, I would rather cut off my John Thomas with a rusty knife than vote for Boris the Liar.

 

[Storrington Seagull]

Stupid post.

You Naz, sorry tory type.

Typical labour rebuff. Can't argue, so go for insults. What's stupid then stupid? There's always the next election to look forward to.
Something factually incorrect?

The best bit about the labour pantomime, isn't abbott's maths self destruct button, corbin's car crash interview with the BBC where he failed to apologise for the anti semites in his party, or McDonnell's, we haven't costed the women pensioners rebate.
It's the poor fella that might have at least made a bit more of a fight of it, Tom Watson, who's been marginalised by the communists and their nationalisation by money tree fantasy. You couldn't make it up....

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Typical labour rebuff. Can't argue, so go for insults. What's stupid then stupid? There's always the next election to look forward to.
Something factually incorrect?

The best bit about the labour pantomime, isn't abbott's maths self destruct button, corbin's car crash interview with the BBC where he failed to apologise for the anti semites in his party, or McDonnell's, we haven't costed the women pensioners rebate.
It's the poor fella that might have at least made a bit more of a fight of it, Tom Watson, who's been marginalised by the communists and their nationalisation by money tree fantasy. You couldn't make it up....

You made a host of claims - produce the evidence to back them up

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

The Tories and antisemitism

https://www.antisemitism.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/MASTER-CONSERVATIVE-PARTY-BRIEFING-12-04-2019-PDF-Version-4.pdf

 

[daveinplzen]

Quite simply anti-Semitism, however people like to define it, is totally wrong, and is rife in the comm, sorry labour party. A party fronted by a friend/sympathiser of hammas, hesbollah and someone who has shared many a platform with the ira.
Simple really.

It is not anti semitism to criticise the Israeli State. It just isnt, unless people are anti catholic when it comes to criticising Italian politics?
All you want to do is use the phrase against the Labour Party, which you are clearly against.
Its not working anymore.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Typical labour rebuff. Can't argue, so go for insults. What's stupid then stupid? There's always the next election to look forward to.
Something factually incorrect?

The best bit about the labour pantomime, isn't abbott's maths self destruct button, corbin's car crash interview with the BBC where he failed to apologise for the anti semites in his party, or McDonnell's, we haven't costed the women pensioners rebate.
It's the poor fella that might have at least made a bit more of a fight of it, Tom Watson, who's been marginalised by the communists and their nationalisation by money tree fantasy. You couldn't make it up....

YOU started the insults with 'Comm'.

Vote for who you want. If you want to start campaigning on here, watch out. You will be rebutted.

 

[Storrington Seagull]

Ten years of decency under Blair.

Do you remember 'if you want a n*gger for a neighbour vote labour'?

Try dragging yourself into the 21st century. The past is chock-a-block full of ***** on all sides. It is what we have now that matters.

And, no, I would rather cut off my John Thomas with a rusty knife than vote for Boris the Liar.

Good god man, I would hope you wouldn't, don't you realise how anti genderism that is, with the blood spilt polluting the river system which in some way would no doubt increase climate change. The man power needed to clean it up would divert resources from the police budget, meaning a policeman's salary would have to be cut by 5p, or is that £1 million, or was it not costed by the shadow chancellor. Have you not considered the strikes it would cause in our newly re-nationalised waterboard, again costing the vulnerable in society their water supply, as they actually have to work to get YOUR contaminants out of the river.
No doubt you are one of the Brighton socialist slippers and pipe brigade, like Pete from woodingdean, the undercover luton fan, so can you imagine how many trees lucas would have to hug to get this out of her system. The sale of jostics in Kemptown would rocket.
I thought that might make you think twice. Simply wait until corbins cronies get in, the four day week arrives, the unions are repowered, the national debt rockets and he has Europe running the show. You can pretend to forget the past, but history has always had a knack of repeating itself, exactly as corbin tries to replicate the 1970's misery we all went through.
As I said the most dangerous man for a generation. Lucky the public have already started to laugh at him, rather than vote for the communist.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It is not anti semitism to criticise the Israeli State. It just isnt, unless people are anti catholic when it comes to criticising Italian politics?
All you want to do is use the phrase against the Labour Party, which you are clearly against.
Its not working anymore.

It is working for him. But he came in with his mind already made up

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Good god man, I would hope you wouldn't, don't you realise how anti genderism that is, with the blood spilt polluting the river system which in some way would no doubt increase climate change. The man power needed to clean it up would divert resources from the police budget, meaning a policeman's salary would have to be cut by 5p, or is that £1 million, or was it not costed by the shadow chancellor. Have you not considered the strikes it would cause in our newly re-nationalised waterboard, again costing the vulnerable in society their water supply, as they actually have to work to get YOUR contaminants out of the river.
No doubt you are one of the Brighton socialist slippers and pipe brigade, like Pete from woodingdean, the undercover luton fan, so can you imagine how many trees lucas would have to hug to get this out of her system. The sale of jostics in Kemptown would rocket.
I thought that might make you think twice. Simply wait until corbins cronies get in, the four day week arrives, the unions are repowered, the national debt rockets and he has Europe running the show. You can pretend to forget the past, but history has always had a knack of repeating itself, exactly as corbin tries to replicate the 1970's misery we all went through.
As I said the most dangerous man for a generation. Lucky the public have already started to laugh at him, rather than vote for the communist.

Sober up, ****.