[Politics] Labour Anti Semitism - Against the faith or the Israeli State?

[Jolly Red Giant]

No, Israel doesn't steal "palestinian" land as there's no such thing. There is no Jewish "occupation" of "palestinian" land. You're spreading untruths. Typical pro "palestinian" lies.

Just out of interest - do you believe that Britain never stole any Irish land either ?

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Corbyn presents absolutely no threat whatsoever to the UK's Jewish community, despite the hysterical whipping-up of fear in certain quarters.

In fact the attacks on Corbyn are far more likely to fuel antisemitism as it bolsters the far-right Brexiteers in their headlong gallop into the arms of Trump (and in case people aren't aware Trump is anti-Semitic).

 

[Hastings gull]

In fact the attacks on Corbyn are far more likely to fuel antisemitism as it bolsters the far-right Brexiteers in their headlong gallop into the arms of Trump (and in case people aren't aware Trump is anti-Semitic).

Well done -you have manged to get Brexit into the equation.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Well done -you have manged to get Brexit into the equation.

The reason for all the propaganda against Corbyn is that if he is elected he will put a spanner into the works over the privatisation of what is left of public services in the UK - specifically the NHS - but also the further privatisation of education. And a lot of this is linked to Brexit - look at the papers leading the attacks - look at their position on Brexit - look at who owns them - and then look at the connections with the Trumpers in the US.

 

[Hastings gull]

The reason for all the propaganda against Corbyn is that if he is elected he will put a spanner into the works over the privatisation of what is left of public services in the UK - specifically the NHS - but also the further privatisation of education. And a lot of this is linked to Brexit - look at the papers leading the attacks - look at their position on Brexit - look at who owns them - and then look at the connections with the Trumpers in the US.

Christ -now Brexit is linked to an apparent privatisation of education.

 

[vegster]

This caller phoned in to LBC to say she was frightened if Jeremy Corbyn became Prime Minister, This sort of thing seems to be happening more and more, someone has a very strong opinion or claim on something and then realises they have no proof or evidence to back it up...…

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/present...s-obrien-forces-callers-u-turn-anti-semitism/

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Christ -now Brexit is linked to an apparent privatisation of education.

Tory Brexit is driven by the Tories who want to get out of Europe in order to ramp up the scale of exploitaiton - they see better opportunities to enrich themselves outside rather than inside the EU. It is the financial sector that wants to remain - in order to exploit the access to cheap finance - Johnson is a representative of the old landed wing of the Tories who still hark back to the 'empire'.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

A Jewish councillor in Plymouth has today been suspended from the Labour party for anti semitism.

 

[portslade seagull]

A Jewish councillor in Plymouth has today been suspended from the Labour party for anti semitism.

Needed to do this months ago. The horse has bolted somewhat

 

[Wardy's twin]

Tory Brexit is driven by the Tories who want to get out of Europe in order to ramp up the scale of exploitaiton - they see better opportunities to enrich themselves outside rather than inside the EU. It is the financial sector that wants to remain - in order to exploit the access to cheap finance - Johnson is a representative of the old landed wing of the Tories who still hark back to the 'empire'.

Agree with this and this has been the way for many years , tell the workers if they don't like it then we will get cheaper 'foreigners' in so building a powerful hold on people based on fear and hate (of the other workers rather than the people profiting).

 

[knocky1]

A Jewish councillor in Plymouth has today been suspended from the Labour party for anti semitism.

Her tweet from 12 years ago picked up by David Collier an anti semite hunter.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/ne...-labour-councillor-plymouth-suspended-3606035

The Californian academic likes to spend his holidays with his children hanging out in Churchill Square.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/...arassed-by-pro-palestinian-activists-1.488144

End of thread...............

 

[drew]

Tory Brexit is driven by the Tories who want to get out of Europe in order to ramp up the scale of exploitaiton - they see better opportunities to enrich themselves outside rather than inside the EU. It is the financial sector that wants to remain - in order to exploit the access to cheap finance - Johnson is a representative of the old landed wing of the Tories who still hark back to the 'empire'.

Jesus, something we agree on!

Although I would add that people like Rees Mogg want out as they'll benefit from less regulation on the financial markets and maximise the money they can earn.

 

[RossyG]

(and in case people aren't aware Trump is anti-Semitic).

His daughter married a Jew and converted to Judaism. Their three children are being raised as Jewish. She said her father supported her from day one.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Corbyn might not be anti-Israel but his preferred friends Hamas and Hezbollah are very anti Israel and want to see the state destroyed and the people there in eliminated. Hamas is by the less extreme but has lost power in Gaza to Hezbollah and that has seen an increase in tension in the region.

Israel has become more extreme year on year as the demographics of the population has changed due to emigration from middle east states and more recently Orthodox Jews from the US & Europe have joined with the right wing Likud to dominate the political scene. The political thinking has been shaped by the recent history of having to fight to survive so that the military and 'firm' approach is seen as the best way. This is then further exploited by minority groups who are pushing to annex land to further an orthodox jewish agenda. This is at odds with a large but minority ( just under 50%) of the population who much more liberal in their views but are crowded out by the extremists on both sides. Interestingly proportional representation has aided the rise of small extreme groups who held the balance in the Knesset.

To me the way forward has to be that Israel continues to be supported by Europe and the US who should seek to exert a moderating influence and try to steer it back to the liberal democracy it once strove to be. That is difficult though , the war in Syria has let Iranian forces come right up to its border so Israel continues to play the 'we are going to be destroyed' card to the Western powers. In addition the American duplicity over the Kurds has probably re-enforced the 'fortress Israel' approach.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

His daughter married a Jew and converted to Judaism. Their three children are being raised as Jewish. She said her father supported her from day one.

Trump repeatedly names the same two democratic reps (scattered around with the odd few others) when he is ranting about impeachment - Schiff and Nadler - Where do you think 'Shifty Schiff' comes from ?
Don Jr has also engaged in antisemitic rants against Soros and Trump claimed that any Jewish person who voted for the Democrats of ignorance and of 'great disloyalty' to Israel - He said the (anti-Semitic) fascists in Charlottesville included 'some very fine people' - Trump made derogatory comments about Jon Stewart, pointing directly to the fact that he was Jewish - and Trump himself has endorsed the crap that Soros was funding the 'migrant train' fueling antisemitism that led directly to the attack on the Pittsburgh synagogue.

When you whip the far-right, evangelical base in American society into a frenzy (which is exactly what Trump does) then you are going to get all the worst elements coming to the fore - racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia and antisemitism - and you end with stuff like the attack in Pittsburgh.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Corbyn might not be anti-Israel but his preferred friends Hamas and Hezbollah are very anti Israel and want to see the state destroyed and the people there in eliminated.

This is nonsense - Corbyn used the term 'friends' when he was trying to encourage a meeting involving both groups and The Americans and Israelis - he has met representatives of Hamas on three occasions - and each time the objective has been to encourage peace talks. The same sh*te was spouted about his relationship with the IRA - he was trying to get them to the talks table as well.

I am making these points despite the fact that I disagree with Corbyn's views on Israel/Palestine and on the North of Ireland. - but it doesn't detract from the fact that this propaganda (like everything else being spouted about him) is bullsh*t.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Jesus, something we agree on!

Wait until you really get to know me

 

[AlastairWatts]

This is nonsense - Corbyn used the term 'friends' when he was trying to encourage a meeting involving both groups and The Americans and Israelis - he has met representatives of Hamas on three occasions - and each time the objective has been to encourage peace talks. The same sh*te was spouted about his relationship with the IRA - he was trying to get them to the talks table as well.......

You sure about that? Seems to me that he would have trouble organising a birthday party, let alone a politiocal negotiation, This is, after all, the man who seems unable to make up his mind on the major issue of the day

 

[Soylent Blue]

Trump repeatedly names the same two democratic reps (scattered around with the odd few others) when he is ranting about impeachment - Schiff and Nadler - Where do you think 'Shifty Schiff' comes from ?

They are running the impeachment inquiry. Trump rants at everyone who bugs him.

Don Jr has also engaged in antisemitic rants against Soros and Trump claimed that any Jewish person who voted for the Democrats of ignorance and of 'great disloyalty' to Israel .

Anti-semetic? citation needed. The critisism of Jews voting for the DNC is no different to Democrats critical of blacks voting Trump, stupid vote coralling but not bigotted.

He said the (anti-Semitic) fascists in Charlottesville included 'some very fine people' - .

Fake news. Conflating two parts of a speach, he was refering to both sides of the confederate statue debate, then condemned both sides in the violence, twice. Go and watch it and see.

- and Trump himself has endorsed the crap that Soros was funding the 'migrant train' fueling antisemitism that led directly to the attack on the Pittsburgh synagogue.

Not true, the shooter hated Trump who he considered a zionist given that he moved the US embassy to Jeruselum, visited the wailing wall and whos daughters married jews with his blessing. Trump may be many things but one thing he definitley isn't is AS.

Which leads me to the point. If you cant identify people who are blatant Zionists how are you going to identify genuine Anti-semites?

This thread title was Labour Anti-semitism against faith or Israel? (Race?)

It has lurched from victim blaming for the holocaust to Brexit to Trump. None of those should impact Labours relationship with the jewish population, any more than pointing out violence in SA against white farmers should impact Tory policy to black people OR brought up in a debate about Tory Policy towards black people.

My worry is that given Corbyns friendship with Hamas etc and given the rising violence against Jews in the UK a Corbyn win may encourage an uptick in violence against Jews. FTR I am not jewish.

A lot of AS is very covert, an example would be debating Jewish over-representation and influence in the media on one hand and Jewish control of the media on the other. People can be clumsy, this aids extremists.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

They are running the impeachment inquiry. Trump rants at everyone who bugs him.

Yes he does - and he used racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia and antisemitism in the tweets.

Anti-semetic? citation needed.

Don Jr retweeted the false anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that Soros was a Nazi who sold out other Jews that was picked up and promoted by Rosanne Barr.

The critisism of Jews voting for the DNC is no different to Democrats critical of blacks voting Trump, stupid vote coralling but not bigotted.

Everything Trump does is bigoted - it is who the guy is.

Fake news. Conflating two parts of a speach, he was refering to both sides of the confederate statue debate, then condemned both sides in the violence, twice. Go and watch it and see.

Both sides were not at fault in Charlottesville - the Unite the Right Rally was a fascist rally intent on whipping up racial and anti-Semitic hatred. His 'condemnation' of the white nationalists had to be dragged out through his teeth days after the violence.

Not true, the shooter hated Trump who he considered a zionist given that he moved the US embassy to Jeruselum, visited the wailing wall and whos daughters married jews with his blessing. Trump may be many things but one thing he definitley isn't is AS.

You are missing the relevance - you cannot turn hate speech on and off like at tap - if you act link Trump in whipping in the far-right into a frenzy you have no way of controlling what they will do on an individual basis. Trump has and continues to whip them into a frenzy - and the consequences of his actions will continue to play out.

Which leads me to the point. If you cant identify people who are blatant Zionists how are you going to identify genuine Anti-semites?

Does Trump support Zionism - yes he does - why does he support Zionism - because it serves his wider anti-Islamic agenda.

Trump cannot help but to be anti-Semitic - it is part of his world view - he hates all people of difference and is utterly intolerant of his fellow human beings - he is a classic sociopath and a narcissist. Furthermore, his anti-semitism would have got him kicked out of the LP a long time ago if here were in a member.

This thread title was Labour Anti-semitism against faith or Israel? (Race?)

It has lurched from victim blaming for the holocaust to Brexit to Trump. None of those should impact Labours relationship with the jewish population, any more than pointing out violence in SA against white farmers should impact Tory policy to black people OR brought up in a debate about Tory Policy towards black people.

Once again - you are looking at this issue from a narrow sectional perspective. The entire globe is connected - the rise of the far-right is impacting everywhere. Ireland has no tradition of far-right parties - yet now there are regular unprovoked attacks on LGBTQ+ people, immigrants, black people and on women and girls wearing the hijab. For the first time in decades we have elected politicians making openly racist comments etc.

And it is interesting that you bring up South Africa and the Tory policy towards black people - given that the British empire was built on slavery by the Tories and the Liberals.

My worry is that given Corbyns friendship with Hamas etc and given the rising violence against Jews in the UK a Corbyn win may encourage an uptick in violence against Jews. FTR I am not jewish.

To repeat again - Corbyn is not 'friends' with Hamas - any more than he was 'friends' with the IRA. I am saying this as someone who doesn't agree with his views on the national question in Ireland or on his position in Israel / Palestine. However,, for the Jewish community in Britain a Corbyn victory is by far the best outcome of the election - Corbyn will continue to fight antisemitism - as he has done his entire life - he will invest in welfare and public services which will undermine support for the far-right - and he will continue to confront the far-right as he has done his entire life.

the right-wing media and the Tories have attempted to whip up a frenzy against Corbyn (using antisemitism as the vehicle because they couldn't make any other dirt stick) - and in the process they are whipping up the far-right - and that is a bix they will be unable (and probably unwilling) to close.

A lot of AS is very covert, an example would be debating Jewish over-representation and influence in the media on one hand and Jewish control of the media on the other. People can be clumsy, this aids extremists.

I agree - and you should point the finger at the Tories, the LibDems and the media for doing this - they are the ones who are engaged in the frenzy.